i thought you played Oblivion. you summon them like a Deadra. What i asked wasnt simply if they are from Oblivion. i wanted to know WHICH plane of Oblivion. We never see them in the Soul cairn. i dont remember seeing them in any other realm so why can we just Summon an already Raised Zombie/Skeleton.

A Neutral good guy could raise dead just fine, with the second and the third methods, assuming that he doesn't have the culture-specific prejudices about the use of the bodies. And he could also talk to spirits. It's only a Lawful Good prissy who wouldn't do it)))

No, I haven't, the uncomfortable camera and the potato faces of the characters stop me from playing it for real.

Which plsne, that's a good question. Can be any, but how exactly does it work? I mean, it's not like people often get into Oblivion while alive, it's usually only the souls that go there. Is there any explanation in the game? Tbh, it makes little sense, unless there's some detail we are missing.

And the Soul Cairn... remember those huge piles of bones?

Vastarie sought, and found, a way to delay the release of a sentient soul upon death so that it might be consulted, and its knowledge recorded for the ages, before it was peacefully allowed to enter Aetherius (as opposed to permanently binding it in an enchantment).

Working with subjects who have died a natural death is preferred by many necromancers, if for no other reasons than it takes less effort and attracts less attention.[20] It seems that Vastarie, though, actively sought to avoid tormenting or permanently binding souls, and her aim seemed to be to benefit society rather than accrue power for herself. She could not abide Mannimarco's goals for the Dark Practice, but she also found that Galerion would not tolerate her experiments in the Mages Guild, despite the safeguards against abuse she had developed. She managed to gather a small group of students, but Mannimarco's burgeoning underground network and promises of power proved much more effective at recruitment. Vastarie eventually disappeared.

 Thats a thing and i read that the Soul Cairn was more about spliting the Spirit from the flesh and discarding the body. Which is why everything in there is either a Soul or a Skeleton. well exept Durnehviir 

but wouldnt the second method still be evil? i mean you are still summoning a Deadra. 

Also about the body he is from Cyrodiil. Despite the bans on necromancy in Morrowind and within the Mages Guild, it technically remained legal in Cyrodiil. In fact, there have been many times in the history of the Imperial Province where necromancy was extensively practiced, and even publicly tolerated. 

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Vezrabuto]Vezrabuto[/url] said:[/b]

 Vastarie sought, and found, a way to delay the release of a sentient soul upon death so that it might be consulted, and its knowledge recorded for the ages, before it was peacefully allowed to enter Aetherius (as opposed to permanently binding it in an enchantment).

 Working with subjects who have died a natural death is preferred by many necromancers, if for no other reasons than it takes less effort and attracts less attention.[20] It seems that Vastarie, though, actively sought to avoid tormenting or permanently binding souls, and her aim seemed to be to benefit society rather than accrue power for herself. She could not abide Mannimarco's goals for the Dark Practice, but she also found that Galerion would not tolerate her experiments in the Mages Guild, despite the safeguards against abuse she had developed. She managed to gather a small group of students, but Mannimarco's burgeoning underground network and promises of power proved much more effective at recruitment. Vastarie eventually disappeared.

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I used to think that this was what the Altmer used. It might even be legal in some cases.

Maybe the practices of the Altmeri Justiciars come from the work of this Vastarie?

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Vezrabuto]Vezrabuto[/url] said:[/b]

 Thats a thing and i read that the Soul Cairn was more about spliting the Spirit from the flesh and discarding the body. Which is why everything in there is either a Soul or a Skeleton. well exept Durnehviir 

[/blockquote]

But you say that in Oblivion you can summon also a corpse, a lich and what else?

The lich makes the least sense. Because liches actually retain their consciousness, unlike corpses and skeletons. 

 Yes you get multiple Skeleton and Zombie and Ghost types a Flesh Atronach(should be called Flesh Golem in my opinion) and the Lich. I know the Lich really makes no Sense. In game it behaves like a Dragonpriest. Maybe it just an undead Caster and they just called it a Lich . 

What i was going for with my Scholar was very Similar to Vastarie. The least amount of Torment and no permanent binding. But i guess i have to rework that alot.

It's quite weird. The way you raise undead in Skyrim at least makes sense. Maybe it's just Bethesda's lazyness, Idk.

The things is that Vastaries's technique hardly can be used in battle. It seems more of a thing one can use to get information.

I'd assume that summoning a zombie from an Oblivion realm works in the same way as summoning a Daedra just with the end result being a different "creature". As for what realm they come from, maybe Coldharbour; Molag does have all those soul shriven left over from the events of ESO, or some other unknown realm as it isn't just the Princes that have realms. 

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Vezrabuto]Vezrabuto[/url] said:[/b]

but wouldnt the second method still be evil? i mean you are still summoning a Deadra. 

[/blockquote]

Not evil, just not appreciated by those who do not study magic. Much like destruction it is a tool that can be used by anyone with the knowledge and innate ability to use magic. Also keep in mind that the schools of magic are just something made up by those who practice it to make it easier to understand, at the end of the day all magic is related.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Vezrabuto]Vezrabuto[/url] said:[/b]

What i was going for with my Scholar was very Similar to Vastarie. The least amount of Torment and no permanent binding. But i guess i have to rework that alot.

[/blockquote]

You don't necessarily have to re-work it, since it should come down to the character's understanding of the magic. Does he believe that his application of these spells is causing as little harm as possible? Does he have information that would indicate otherwise? We as the player have access to all this information but even the best educated characters in game don't necessarily have the same level of knowledge. He might also know something that we the players do not.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Vezrabuto]Vezrabuto[/url] said:[/b]

 Thats a thing and i read that the Soul Cairn was more about spliting the Spirit from the flesh and discarding the body. Which is why everything in there is either a Soul or a Skeleton. well exept Durnehviir 

but wouldnt the second method still be evil? i mean you are still summoning a Deadra. 

Also about the body he is from Cyrodiil. Despite the bans on necromancy in Morrowind and within the Mages Guild, it technically remained legal in Cyrodiil. In fact, there have been many times in the history of the Imperial Province where necromancy was extensively practiced, and even publicly tolerated. 

[/blockquote]

Is summoning of Daedra evil? Some might see it so, but it's more of a matter of belief, you aren't exactly harm anyone by the act itself. Dangerous, yes, but not evil.

The fact that necromancy is legal in Cyrodiil is another testament to the ignorance and depravity of the Imperials. They most likely don't have the restricting laws and means of control like the Dominion has. So they apparently just have a crowwd of necromancers who do what they want. The necromancy itself might not be all evil, but such carelessness with it certainly is.