Skyrim Character Building » Discussions


Character Build: The Knight

  • Member
    June 6, 2013

    I did not know that little Courage trick; really cool! I was thinking about starting a knight of Auriel using a bit of Henson's Sun Priest mixed with this build with a little archery thrown in, but after reading this little Illusion tactic I might just go straight up Tim Faroe's Knight. I guess it has made me think of the D&D 4E Paladin who shouts challenges across the battlefield and I can imagine the fun I could have with Fear and Frenzy with that in mind.

    How did you deal with some of the trickier and morally ambiguous quests from a roleplay perspective, Tim? I'm thinking  about In My Time Of Need in which it seems more chivalrous to side with the lady yet seems too mercenary when you speak to Kematu.

    Also, what about the tricky Dawnguard quests like Hide and Seek? Is a non perked Illusion skill good enough for Frenzy to work against a Visiting Advisor? I would be reluctant to try and pickpocket and would be just as uneasy about any crimes appearing on my statistics page which would rule out assault.

    This is a very inspiring and beautifully presented build and has made me want to play Pendragon rpg. Nice one!

  • Member
    June 6, 2013

    Thanks for your support Phil!

    For a lot of the morally ambiguous quests, the knight would never even start them. In your example, a sellsword looking for a woman who will pay you would completely be blown off by a knight and not take part in honorless manhunts and scheming intrigue. He would go off and look for a more valorous quest like slaying a giant. The key is to keep a clear conscience, and if you do end up breaking the rules, find penitent ways to earn forgiveness. I like to climb the 7000 steps and leave an offering at the feet of the statue Talos just outside High Hrothgar or simply donate to the Temple of Mara in Riften. If a crime was committed, you pay the fine or serve the time to make restitution.

    For the Dawnguard quests, remember that a vampire is undead and therefore a monster who does not need to be shown the same courtesy as living people. Therefore, honor does not force you to avoid pickpocketry in this case. Also, pro tip, you can read notes in someone's inventory without taking them. Alternatively, if you want to just face him head on, accept the assault/murder charge and serve the jail time. Your own comfort is nothing compared to the safety of the realm. The Divines will know you did the right thing even if the authorities do not.

    Since you seem excited about serving Auriel, I'll give you a sneak preview of my Order of the Hour build that I'm about to release. This order of knights serves Akatosh, and any elves joining would probably refer to him as Auriel since they are the same, here is the perk spread if you're interested.

    Note that this is a holy knight order that uses divine magic, less of a pure warrior. The skillset is based off of Daggerfall's skillset for this faction. It's still entirely possible to use the generic knight but focus on worshiping Auriel if it's too magicky for your tastes. Keep an eye out for the new build, it'll be the first in my upcoming Knights Templar series!

  • Member
    June 7, 2013

    That preview from the perk calculator looks interesting, I'm curious about how the sneak skill will be used and interpreted from an rp standpoint. I like the holy knight concept, but is there a distinction in between that and paladin?

    Thanks for the tip about pickpocket, I assumed you actually needed to show the note to the jarl but if that isn't necessary then all's good. I'm still not too sure about in my time of need, Saadia does pretty much play the part of damsel in distress and asks for help. Ignoring her doesn't sit right with me but neither does acting the mercenary. I guess it's Skyrim's Tenpenny Tower quest

  • Member
    June 7, 2013

    The short answer on sneak is that dragons are predatory and Order of the Hour knights emulate dragons. That said, sneak is not allowed on everyone. The philosophy for some of the temple knights is "those who do not live with honor shall not receive honorable deaths." So bandits, assassins, criminals, monsters, undeads, etc. are fair game for sneaking. The Shadow Warrior perk will also play into the time control aspect, as it's a great way to simulate jumping one second forward in time. The other thing is quite simply, the Order of the Hour trained and required use of stealth in Daggerfall. I'll go into it in more detail when the build comes out.

    While it "holy knight" is pretty much what a paladin is, these builds aren't meant to rip Ponty off, instead I am basing everything on factions from Daggerfall. While the similarity to Ponty's build and its paths are undeniable, they will be different enough that they can be considered distinct from one another. TES 2 is amazing and I really wanted to bring back some of that lore.

    So about that specific quest, if you never accept the quest from the Alik'r warriors, they wander off to Rorikstead, leaving Saadia safely hidden in Whiterun. By not even engaging the quest, the knight maintains his honor and can focus his attention on more direct threats

  • Member
    June 7, 2013

    The Order of the Hour sounds interesting, I look forward to the build and the Templar series.

    I didn't mean to imply you were copying Ponty, Tim. I think the Paladin class has a great deal of room for interpretation, especially when looked at through rpg eyes. Iirc in D&D 3E and 4E a Paladin didn't necessarily have to have a good alignment but should roughly share the alignment of his/her deity. So from that point of view a Paladin of Kynareth could be massively different from a Paladin of Stendarr.

  • Member
    June 7, 2013

    Yeah, no worries, I wasn't trying to say you were accusing me of copying Ponty, just pointing out the difference because I know people will inevitably draw comparisons.

    I only ever played 3.5, but I'm familiar with the alignment system you're describing from the cleric class. That;s a pretty accurate description of what I'm going for, even though they're all holy knights, they come out with wildly different skills. Glad you're so interested in what I'm doing! =)

  • Member
    June 7, 2013

    If your going to make a Templar Knight path than I suggest using the Imperial Shield. It bears the most resemblance to the shields used by the Templar in my opinion. I also suggest the Pale Guard Shield since sort of has a cross-like symbol on it.

  • Member
    June 8, 2013

    Thanks for the upvote Kaz! Is there a particular reason that these pictures don't do it for you? How would you suggest I improve them in the future?

  • Member
    July 15, 2013

     

    Thanks for the upvote Roger, glad you like it! The actual in-game description of the knight class leaves a lot open to interpretation, it reads as follows:

    "The most noble of all combatants. Strong in body and in character."

    So while it doesn't explicitly say to only use it for buffing and speech options, that was always the implication in my mind. I was taking equal parts from Oblivion and from real-world knights. Actual knights would never paralyze an opponent even if it was as easy as waving your hand in special way. The fear/fury spells also don't seem right to me at all, a knight faces his opponents head on and would not resort to magical trickery to scare them off or kill their friends. "Noble" and "strong in character" imply that they would never use Illusion in that way, because fostering terror and betrayal just wouldn't be a righteous action.

    While you are technically correct that Oblivion never restricted use of Illusion spells, I was going based off of my own personal interpretation and understanding of a knight. What you read may have been something that somebody wrote with the mentality of "how can I use these skills to their fullest extent?" but my approach comes out of a roleplay focus, not just simple effectiveness. Hope that answers your question, end of the day everyone has a slightly different interpretation.

  • Member
    July 15, 2013

    Well you already know my theory, Oblivion knights should have used them for charisma not anything else, so only buffs and charms. That said I'm sure many who picked the class were going for straight up usefulness in their use of Illusion. Also, I'd guess they would get magical blessings as a result of serving the Divines.