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• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:20 PM EDT

  As my sources put it, they want the Imperial "humans are the best and no way that could be different" culture, they can't control them, they know that, so common sense and logic seem to be missing.
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:24 PM EDT

  Not necessarily, for example, Skyrim, both the Atmorans and Falmer lived in peace until the Eye of Magnus incident, no second class deal, yet the Atmorans provoked the Elves...
  
  
  And also, we've covered THEY DON'T WANT TO CONTROL THE HUMANS, just stop the cultural mindset I listed in my other comment.
• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:24 PM EDT

  It's the main culture because the majority if the people in the Empire are Human. And the capital (city and province) is Human.

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:24 PM EDT

  Especially since so much of it comes from the Elves like laws. And humans claim credit for these.
• Deleted Member

  
   

  June 9, 2014 12:25 PM EDT

  Translation: "I don't want to control you, I just want to make sure the way you think is in line with my ideals." 

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:28 PM EDT

  But it's also humans are best kind of culture, the Empire claims equality, yet the beast races aren't allowed in Skyrim's cities, even the ones under Imperial control(Solitude and Markarth apparently the exceptions)!
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:31 PM EDT

  Nice mistranslation, the current culture is we're the best, no alternatives, the Thalmor are trying to get it where Elves are respected and recognized for what they've done rather than the way it is now.
• Deleted Member

  
   

  June 9, 2014 12:33 PM EDT

  It's hard to respect someone when they keep telling you how to live, and that they're better than you. 

  They must have insecurities because they need others to tell them how good they are, ALL. THE. TIME. 

  Edit: and that translation was spot on. 

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:33 PM EDT

  But the point is, not that he's a god, they understand that. They don't want him as a divine, and people worship him like he is one, the Imperial cult even says it's hero worship, and let me tell you, Tiber Septim is no hero to the Elves, yet they're forced to recognize him as one.
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:35 PM EDT

  Also, another Vix quote:
  
  "Cyrodiilic and Nord cultures venerate heroes, that much is true, the Elves do it as well. However, while the Elven heroes are often from the first generations of their king, or through certain specific circumstances in the case of the tribunal, the Cyrodiils and Nords will simply set up a shrine and start praising their savior as a God (Reflections of Cult Worship). It's common, Tiber Septim did this to his own predecessor Emperor Cuhlecain by establishing the Cult of Zero-Emperor (Arcturian Heresy, Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd edition). One of the most peculiar points of note is that the central Cyrodiilic people were not generally in favor of Talos as a Divine, his converts were from three groups of people: the military, the provincials, and those recently assimilated into Imperial culture (Reflections on Cult Worship) so while the altruism behind some of the dialogue of 'The Talos Mistake' might not be correct, the general principle that he was merely a great man and Emperor, is still viewed favorably."
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:39 PM EDT

  Shor, you are completely misunderstanding the point, they a aren't looking for petty compliments, they aren't telling people how to live except for Talos, which is perfectly understandable considering the circumstances. They don't want to control you, they just want to make sure Elves are respected and a force to be reckoned with, not the trash as humans in the Empire(most of them) treat the Elves and even beast races.
• Deleted Member

  
   

  June 9, 2014 12:39 PM EDT

  I don't see a problem if Elves can climb the ranks to god-hood, unless, the elves really do think of them selves as better. Look at Phynaster. He was a regular dude, and *poof* in their pantheon. 

  Men could argue this same point for the Elven Pantheon. 

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:40 PM EDT

  What laws? Don't steal? Don't kill? Riiight, only Elves could come up with that.

• Deleted Member

  
   

  June 9, 2014 12:40 PM EDT

  This tells me nothing than that Cyrdodiil doesn't have a problem with changing religions, while others do. 

  Also, Vix is, while knowledgeable, biased. 

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:42 PM EDT

  UESP:
  Hero-god of the Summerset Isles, who taught the Altmer how to naturally live another hundred years by using a shorter walking stride. He is worshipped by both the Altmer and Bretons,[1] as well as the Snow Elves.[2] He also created the Ring of Phynaster to help him survive his adventurous life.[3] He was one of the ancestor spirits of the upper castes of the Aldmer who would eventually become worshipped by their entire society.[4]
  
  Yeah, a regular guy. And he isn't in their divines, do they worship him, yes, do they recognize him as leader of the gods, no, unlike some people with a certain warlord...
• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:43 PM EDT

  Skyrim obviously is in turmoil and Imperial authority is weakened. In the place where it's still strong (Solitude) there is still equality.

  And Human culture is obviously the best, for Humans AKA the majority of the people in the Empire.

  The ONLY way I can see a better mix of Elven and Human cultures is if Akavir invaded and they had to ally up for survival. maybe then they will grow less resentful of eachother and work together which will over longer periods of time, effect both cultures.

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:45 PM EDT

  You know those parentheses, that's called a bunch of sources, that isn't the point Shor, the thing is, while all cultures have hero worship, they don't call said heroes a divine, leader of the divines even, and then force the people he massacred that he is one of their gods.
• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:46 PM EDT

  Like many Humans during the war as well? Elves aren't holy, they destroyed Human cities just as much as Humans destroyed theirs. The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

• Deleted Member

  
   

  June 9, 2014 12:47 PM EDT

  Spectre, what the Dominion is doing by the forceful removal of Talos is the same as the forceful "oppression" of him. The Dominion are hypocrites. 

  What about them is mistreated? Ocato was the second highest dude in the Empire, and after Oblivion, he was the Emperor, the highest position available. Nothing about the elves is mistreated. They're the most skilled craftsmen, and artists. No one is disputing this, but Heaven forbid men try to compete!

  The beast races aren't even a part of this discussion. 

• Alduin

  

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  June 9, 2014 12:48 PM EDT

  Source for what? That the Alyeids enslaved and killed Humans en masse? You really need a source for that?

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:48 PM EDT

  Okay, first, I'll say yet again, in Skyrim during the Merethic period, humans and Elves coexisted just fine until the humans provoked the Falmer. And we learn that the beast races never have been allowed, even when the empire was at it's strongest, and the Empire doesn't have room to cater to just humans, as they learned in the Great War and were forced to sign the WGC, they reaped what they sowed.
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:50 PM EDT

  No, you said conflict aka civil strife, I know the Ayleids enslaved the Humans that lived there, but I don't see any civil strife there until "St." Alessia, lead the extermination of a race.
• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:51 PM EDT

  Coexisted fine? Barely, they were second Citizens no matter how you look at it. They have their own Empire now, you really think they want to go back to being lower class citizens just to have peace? Seems like a bad, and craven deal.

  Skyrim always had a lot of freedom, so they might or might not have been allowed to make the decision about the beast races themselves.

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:52 PM EDT

  You expected there was no civil strife when Humans were being treated like that? Really? There wasn't a major revolt before only because the Humans weren't in a good position before.

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:59 PM EDT

  First, the beast races, when discussing the human-centric culture of the Empire, all races must be taken into account or this isn't a legitimate discussion.
  
  Secondly, the Empire was forcing Elves to recognize a man who massacred their families as the leader of all gods, no Elf ancestor/hero worship comes close to being called a divine, yet Talos is suddenly the leader of the gods, the banning of his worship is also logical, because as an elf, how would you feel if across the border, that nation's MAIN GOD was a man who massacred your civilians?