Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


General Lore Discussions

  • Member
    June 2, 2016

    True, I mean, Dragonborn or not, even with a time shattering mecha, he was still only one man. 

  • June 2, 2016

    And might as well add that Red Mountain itself is literally called Dagoth-Ur by the Dunmer and with all the Dwemer complexes it may as well be a city.

  • June 2, 2016

    So lately I've been thinking about Leki, the Redguard God of Aberrant Swordsmanship. For those who don't, MK put Leki on his 'Top 10 most powerful beings' list, I think number 5 or 6. This is obviously pretty high up, especially for a god we know very little. The HoonDing is on the list as well but we've seen examples of its power and know it's not your usual god. But Leki doesn't seem to be that unusual, besides her placement on this list.

    So I've been trying to think of why she's so powerful and I think I figured it out. It relates to Tonal Architecture, which are basically the laws or structure of nature, and mortals can affect. The most obvious example is the Thu'um the old Nords used. They used their Voice to alter the Tonal Architecure. I believe the old Yokudans did the same thing except with sword techniques (I don't think I'm the first one to come up with this idea, by the way).

    Now sword techniques that affect the structure of the universe are obviously not very mundane or standard and aberrance is the deviation from the standard and mundane. So bringing it back to Leki, I believe her knowledge, power, and skill over the techniques that allow the manipulation of Tonal Architecture is what gives her so much power.

    To sum it up: Leki has great ties over the Tonal Architecture through her power/influence over the sword techniques that affect it. Leki would roughly be the equivalent of God of the Thu'um. What do you guys think? I'm especially interested in comments regarding Tonal Architecture itself. I'm far from an expert on it, so any extra info, conflicting or supporting, would be appreciated.

  • Tom
    Member
    June 3, 2016

    Hmm. My first thought is Bladesingers from D&D. The combination of performance, music, magic, and swordsmanship.

    Perhaps the swords are used as giant tuning forks, literally cutting their vibrations into the hair. This also seems oddly brilliant considering Redguards aren't known for a love of magic except Alteration iirc.

  • June 3, 2016

    I wonder what the Indoril wing emblem is meant to represent.

  • Member
    June 4, 2016

    Right, so, quick thought. A horseshit theory I came up with or may have come up with on my own (?) think I hashed out with Albino. Hope it supports yours.

    I remembered this pic of Leki:

    And saw the symbolism, very reminiscent of Sermon 13:

    'The magical cross is an integration of the worth of mortals at the expense of their spirits. Surround it with the triangle and you begin to see the Triune house. It becomes divided into corners, which are ruled by our brethren, the Four Corners: BAL DAGON MALAC SHEOG. Rotate the triangle and you pierce the heart of the Beginning Place, the foul lie, the testament of the irrefutable-for-a-span. Above them all is the horizon where only one stands, though no one stands there yet. It is proof of the new. It is the promise of the wise. Unfold the whole and what you have is a star, which is not my domain, but not entirely outside my judgment. The grand design takes flight; it is transformed not only into a star but a hornet. The center cannot hold. It becomes devoid of lines and points. It becomes devoid of anything and so becomes a receptacle. This is its usefulness at the end. This is its promise.

    'The sword is the cross and ALMSIVI is the Triune house around it. If there is to be an end I must be removed. The ruling king must know this, and I will test him. I will murder him time and again until he knows this. I am the defender of the last and the last. To remove me is to refill the heart that lay dormant at the center that cannot hold. I am the sword, Ayem the star, Seht the mechanism that allows the transformation of the world. Ours is the duty to keep the compromise from being filled with black sea.'

    So with the help of Rotten D and New whirling School... Well Rotten D says about The Magical Cross:

    This alternate interpretation of infinite radiating energy can be conceptually linked to the interpretation of the all-encompassing physical realm if you consider the connections between the Aurbic Wheel and the creation of Nirn. For example, the radiating lines could be the Gift-Limbs of the Aedra. A circular outline could be the borders of the finite Mundian realm.

    Then about the triangle:

    what if we instead surround the cross with four triangles? At this point it begins to more closely resemble the Cross of Matter; a cross surrounded by a shape that represents the physical edges of the world's body....Or, if you like, it could be a three-dimensional shape, like a pyramid:

    Why a pyramid? Egyptian pyramids are thought to be references to the Benben, the primordial mound of mud from which all of existence originated. I've already touched on the mystical relationship between earth (the substance, not the planet), Nirn, and mortal life, of course. And this relationship reappears several other times in Elder Scrolls lore, though I can only think of Hrol's Hillock at the moment. And there are some theologists who speculate that the shape of the pyramid infers a transition from the base (earth, and mortality) to the top (sky, and divinity), which confers the shape of the pyramid as a method of ascension to divinity. And that is, of course, exactly what ALMSIVI is.

    Damn, will be better if you go there and read yourself.

    But basically, that symbol behind Leki follows that sermon to me. The last words - the pyramid as a method of ascension to divinity. And that is, of course, exactly what ALMSIVI is - well, it got me thinking how they ascended. And it sort of ties in with you. Sunder, Keening and all that Dwemer stuff.

    So yeah, totally with you. If Skyrim is about bringing back this ancient lost art used in battle against dragons, then if there is a TES VI: Redguard and the games do follow a thematic pattern, I reckon we'll see Ansei (?) return and with them a lot of Leki. If the HoonDing is like the Talos of Redguards, then Leki could be the... Wait. If Leki is the Talos of Redguards, what is the HoonDing? Fuck, I am exhausted.

  • June 4, 2016

    We talked about Tonal Architecture not that long ago, right, Phil?

    We know that Tonal Architecture has to do something with sound, relating to the fact that everything is basicaly a song.

    So Dwemer had their tools, Keening and Sunder, and those resurfaced in Morrowind. Nords have Thu´um and that appeared in Skyrim. Redguards/Yokudans had Bladesinging and just by the sound of that name it is tied to sounds, so it definitely had to do something with Tonal Architecture.

    Also, the fact that Orichal´s Stone was most likely a sword kind of adds to this theory. And damn. Phil, can you recall that source I sent you some time ago? The one which says that rogue/outcast group of Ansei might actually have been responsible for sinking Yokuda? I can´t find it.

    But the point is...if Bladesinging can do that and Leki is patron of that....then damn!

  • June 4, 2016

    Ah, found it. Yokuda

    Others suggest that it may have had human origins: during the last civil war, a renegade band of Ansei called the Hiradirge were said to be masters of stone magic. When they were defeated in battle in 1E 792, the argument goes, they had their revenge on the entire land, destroying what they would never rule.

    It´s just a nitpicking, but if Orichal´s Stone was sword and Ansei/Hiradirge were masters of stone magic...

    Just a guess. The source isn´t exactly reliable on this matter, it´s Pocket Guide after all.

  • June 4, 2016

    I always liked to think that the sword and circle behind Leki there is meant to symbolize as Sun Cross. That way it fits better in to my idea of being Merid  

  • Member
    June 4, 2016

    Any source is a source, if it is written then it is there. If it is later disproved, it still remains a source and can be used to subvert which is where the fun really begins

    As for Leki, my original hypothesis was that the Triune House of the sermons, that magical cross, the magical cross we see on Leki... well I was trying to link it to Trinimac of all people. Trying to say that Leki was Trinimac, or the Yoku version of. Not sure it holds water. But if we look at threes:

    Talos

    Almsivi

    Trinimac

    And ask what they all have in common... The Heart. The Heart is the Heart of the World. The Song, The Towers, The Tone, The Architecture... connected to the Heart.

    If Leki is like the Yoku god of the Yoku equiv of Shouts, then she is like a Talos. Could it be that Leki is a Trisomething? That there is a divine trinity in her?

    If so who and what?

    Or am I talking tired shit now?

    Edit:

    Tamriel. Starry Heart. That whole fucking thing is a song. It was made either out of 12 planets, or from two brothers that split in the womb. Either way, it's the primal wail and those that grew up on it - they can't help but hear it, and add to it, or try to control it, or run from it. The reason there IS music on Tamriel at ALL is because it exists. It was and is and it will not stop.

    There are repeats in it; plays on a tune. Variations. And most likely Magnus? (He's the one that made the fucker, and now that's why he looks back on it, every single day, that's his promise.

    "When you wake up, I will still listen. I'm sorry I left, but hey, I'm still right up here. And my mnemoli? They show up every now and then, and collect all the songs you've made since the last time around. The last real moment."

    The Mnemoli? They're the keepers of the Elder Scrolls. They cannot be fixed until seen. And they cannot be seen until a moment. And you, your hero, makes that moment.

    The whole fucking thing is a song. Tonal Architecture then makes more sense, right?