Skyrim Character Building » Discussions

The Ideal Build Requirements

• Oneness

  

  Member
   

  January 9, 2014

  1) After my experiences, I think every character needs a backstory. Ideally it shouldn't be too long and if it is, then it should be in the story corner or the roleplay group. A little tid bit of that long story, just enough to understand the build, is all you need for the actual character build. With that said, it should probably give some insight into the personality of the character and a preview of what the character has to offer gameplay wise.

  2) I'm starting to lean a lot more towards artwork. If the artwork is right, it really lets the reader's imagination fly. But screenshots can be useful is trying to sell a certain aesthetic or a look into some epic move. Overall it depends more so on each individual build, but I prefer good artwork over screenshots usually.

  3) I have always believed in having a heavy emphasis on gameplay in character builds and letting the reader decide for themselves how they will roleplay, and now that roleplay profiles are real I am sold on sticking specifically on gameplay and leaving the heavy roleplay to the profiles. With that said, I expect a lot when I read a gameplay section, not just one tiny paragraph unless it is really roleplay heavy. The gameplay section should really describe how the character was played, how did basic combat go, how did special combat go, at what levels did you do certain quests or get certain armor. It should answer the "how" and "whens" of the build. 

  4) I personally think the character should be between level 40 and 60. Anything less than 40, it becomes a little hard to really make it unique skill wise because you're still in the lower parts of skill trees. But anything over 60 becomes a very daunting task, hell even 60 is being generous because around 50 things become tedious to level. 

  5) It is nice to see when a character can get into their equipment right off the bat. It is no fun having to run around for 20-30 levels before your character even looks like your character. But on the other hand, somethings can be worked around until higher levels. For example my Golem build relies heavily on the look of stahlrim equipment, but that isn't available until level 30's. So to work around it I found something of a similar style in chitin armor. As long as there is a reasonable substitute until the end game equipment can be achieved, it is okay for it be a little difficult to get. Otherwise, it is bet to make it something you can get early game. 

  6) On-site. Hands down. Sometimes I look at builds while I'm out and on my phone so going to an off-site calculator is too much of a hassle. But something I am starting to see is people just grabbing any picture and just putting perks on it. Like seeing a death knight build with a perk spread that has flowers for a background. Not a good look dude. If it is a picture it should be supplemental to the build and, this might be nit picking but, the font should also go with the theme. Like don't use a random or basic font, try to make it look pretty ya know. Along with pictures it should also try to be a blank space. I have a couple perk spreads that are just right on the picture and they can be hard to read. So I know it is hard to sacrifice part of the picture for writing, but sometimes it is necessary. But if you get a clear picture that a nice font shows up well on, by all means put the words right on.

  7) I'm probably just going to be naming what I put in my builds lol.

  • Introduction and stats
  • Skills
  • Gameplay
  • Roleplay (if necessary)
  • Equipment (if something particularly special)

  1) After my experiences, I think every character needs a backstory. Ideally it shouldn't be too long and if it is, then it should be in the story corner or the roleplay group. A little tid bit of that long story, just enough to understand the build, is all you need for the actual character build. With that said, it should probably give some insight into the personality of the character and a preview of what the character has to offer gameplay wise.

  2) I'm starting to lean a lot more towards artwork. If the artwork is right, it really lets the reader's imagination fly. But screenshots can be useful is trying to sell a certain aesthetic or a look into some epic move. Overall it depends more so on each individual build, but I prefer good artwork over screenshots usually.

  3) I have always believed in having a heavy emphasis on gameplay in character builds and letting the reader decide for themselves how they will roleplay, and now that roleplay profiles are real I am sold on sticking specifically on gameplay and leaving the heavy roleplay to the profiles. With that said, I expect a lot when I read a gameplay section, not just one tiny paragraph unless it is really roleplay heavy. The gameplay section should really describe how the character was played, how did basic combat go, how did special combat go, at what levels did you do certain quests or get certain armor. It should answer the "how" and "whens" of the build. 

  4) I personally think the character should be between level 40 and 60. Anything less than 40, it becomes a little hard to really make it unique skill wise because you're still in the lower parts of skill trees. But anything over 60 becomes a very daunting task, hell even 60 is being generous because around 50 things become tedious to level. 

  5) It is nice to see when a character can get into their equipment right off the bat. It is no fun having to run around for 20-30 levels before your character even looks like your character. But on the other hand, somethings can be worked around until higher levels. For example my Golem build relies heavily on the look of stahlrim equipment, but that isn't available until level 30's. So to work around it I found something of a similar style in chitin armor. As long as there is a reasonable substitute until the end game equipment can be achieved, it is okay for it be a little difficult to get. Otherwise, it is bet to make it something you can get early game. 

  6) On-site. Hands down. Sometimes I look at builds while I'm out and on my phone so going to an off-site calculator is too much of a hassle. But something I am starting to see is people just grabbing any picture and just putting perks on it. Like seeing a death knight build with a perk spread that has flowers for a background. Not a good look dude. If it is a picture it should be supplemental to the build and, this might be nit picking but, the font should also go with the theme. Like don't use a random or basic font, try to make it look pretty ya know. Along with pictures it should also try to be a blank space. I have a couple perk spreads that are just right on the picture and they can be hard to read. So I know it is hard to sacrifice part of the picture for writing, but sometimes it is necessary. But if you get a clear picture that a nice font shows up well on, by all means put the words right on.

  7) I'm probably just going to be naming what I put in my builds lol.

  • Introduction and stats
  • Skills
  • Gameplay
  • Roleplay (if necessary)
  • Equipment (if something particularly special)
• LiTiBi

  

  Member
   

  January 9, 2014

  Whether you are critiquing a build or developing one, the key to an ideal build is that it is helpful to the readers and that people will enjoy playing it as well as reading it. I'm new to writing builds, but I hope to share my thoughts on what I observe to be most beneficial when discussing about them:

  1) There are two extremes to developing a build. One is purely from a gameplay perspective without factoring lore or roleplaying, i.e. making powerhouse builds or fun builds to fool around with. The other would take Elder Scrolls lore into serious consideration in the makeup and motives of the character. Depending on your approach, that would determine the length of the character's backstory. However, even if a character has extensive lore to support it, I would recommend keeping the introduction short so that readers can get to the breakdown of your build sooner. You can expand on the backstory and character motives later in the Role-playing section. Also, think of the introduction as a way of getting readers into the mood of your character before they commence a new game with it. Explaining what the character was doing just prior to entering Skyrim effectively connects what is written in the build to the actual gameplay experience.

  2) Even if the presentation is simple, consistency in the aesthetics and quality of the screenshots/artwork makes a good first impression, adding credibility to the build. Presentation is probably more than half of the effort and fun to a build writeup. Finding images that work well together isn't easy, especially ones that correlate with the world of Elder Scrolls.

  3) I wouldn't put a firm limit on the length of these sections. Again, this depends on the kind of build you are trying to develop, whether from a practical gameplay or lore perspective. It really boils down to the content of what is written. It's awesome when an author shares the ideas and dynamics of his/her decisions in developing the character build, yet leaves options and alternatives that allow the reader to personalize it or even create their own variant.

  4) This really depends on the build and character. Some level 25 builds may be more effective than level 50 builds that have poor perk placement or awkward play-styles. I personally admire well-designed builds at level 50. Even if I have my own plans for my character build up to level 81 or beyond, I would leave the readers to make their own choices beyond level 50.

  5) If the ideal equipment load-out is difficult to acquire, build authors should recommend lower level alternatives as the character strives to attain to their desired setup.

  6) On-site or off-site doesn't really matter. But at least demonstrating the perk spreads at level 25 and at level 50 will help readers understand what they need to do to develop the character's abilities. I don't mind off-site, because it allows the readers to interact with the perk placement to possibly make their own modifications. If they can make a better perk spread than you, why not let them?

  7) For my ideal build, I would have the following sections: Character Introduction, Build Description & Stats, Major & Minor Skills, Equipment, Role-play, and Gameplay. I put Role-play before Gameplay because it helps the readers to understand the character's motives before they put it into action in gameplay. Lore is also important to some readers and they would love to see a character that fits in well with the game's universe before they try it out themselves.

  Whether you are critiquing a build or developing one, the key to an ideal build is that it is helpful to the readers and that people will enjoy playing it as well as reading it. I'm new to writing builds, but I hope to share my thoughts on what I observe to be most beneficial when discussing about them:

  1) There are two extremes to developing a build. One is purely from a gameplay perspective without factoring lore or roleplaying, i.e. making powerhouse builds or fun builds to fool around with. The other would take Elder Scrolls lore into serious consideration in the makeup and motives of the character. Depending on your approach, that would determine the length of the character's backstory. However, even if a character has extensive lore to support it, I would recommend keeping the introduction short so that readers can get to the breakdown of your build sooner. You can expand on the backstory and character motives later in the Role-playing section. Also, think of the introduction as a way of getting readers into the mood of your character before they commence a new game with it. Explaining what the character was doing just prior to entering Skyrim effectively connects what is written in the build to the actual gameplay experience.

  2) Even if the presentation is simple, consistency in the aesthetics and quality of the screenshots/artwork makes a good first impression, adding credibility to the build. Presentation is probably more than half of the effort and fun to a build writeup. Finding images that work well together isn't easy, especially ones that correlate with the world of Elder Scrolls.

  3) I wouldn't put a firm limit on the length of these sections. Again, this depends on the kind of build you are trying to develop, whether from a practical gameplay or lore perspective. It really boils down to the content of what is written. It's awesome when an author shares the ideas and dynamics of his/her decisions in developing the character build, yet leaves options and alternatives that allow the reader to personalize it or even create their own variant.

  4) This really depends on the build and character. Some level 25 builds may be more effective than level 50 builds that have poor perk placement or awkward play-styles. I personally admire well-designed builds at level 50. Even if I have my own plans for my character build up to level 81 or beyond, I would leave the readers to make their own choices beyond level 50.

  5) If the ideal equipment load-out is difficult to acquire, build authors should recommend lower level alternatives as the character strives to attain to their desired setup.

  6) On-site or off-site doesn't really matter. But at least demonstrating the perk spreads at level 25 and at level 50 will help readers understand what they need to do to develop the character's abilities. I don't mind off-site, because it allows the readers to interact with the perk placement to possibly make their own modifications. If they can make a better perk spread than you, why not let them?

  7) For my ideal build, I would have the following sections: Character Introduction, Build Description & Stats, Major & Minor Skills, Equipment, Role-play, and Gameplay. I put Role-play before Gameplay because it helps the readers to understand the character's motives before they put it into action in gameplay. Lore is also important to some readers and they would love to see a character that fits in well with the game's universe before they try it out themselves.

• Warlocksg

  

  Member
   

  January 9, 2014

  Hey Vazgen, Typing this from my phone so my response ain't gonna be great as the others before me I suppose, so I'll reply in my own fashion. For those who follow my builds, you would notice I have transformed from a story based approach to a more Analytical approach. If you ask me, I'd like a bit of both but favor more of the analytical approach, choosing to instead, intergrate any immersive stories into the questlines chosen for the build and lump it with RP. My recent night weaver build is an example of such. Whilst artwork or stylized screenshots are all fine and dandy, the one thing I am most concerned with is the build mechanics. I mean, have any of you played kingdoms of amalur? Man, that is what skyrim and elder scrolls online should be like in terms of combat, not this blocky chop suey kinda retard combat mechanics! Whilst it's hard to replicate that smooth transition of weapon to spells combat or even just use them along side each other in a stylized fashion (anyone tried firing off staff right after a sideway power strike with a one handed weapon?) some combat mechanics in skyrim can come close to achieving that, more so easier achieved with spells as compared to weapons. Interesting combo's that weave at least 3 spells in or combat moves + shouts for seamless 1-2 (ie: dual weild power strike + soul tear first shout) as the sort of things that will bring and awesome gameplay to this somewhT rather lackluster sorry excuse for combat in skyrim. RP wise the side quests and indeed some faction main quests give you plenty of opportunity to live out your role play... Just need to know where to look for the class your're playing, Tip: to fully immerse yourself don't fast travel, travel by foot and only by carriage when you reach a town if rping a wanderer. Feeling tired of it? Buy a horse and ride all over.

  Hey Vazgen, Typing this from my phone so my response ain't gonna be great as the others before me I suppose, so I'll reply in my own fashion. For those who follow my builds, you would notice I have transformed from a story based approach to a more Analytical approach. If you ask me, I'd like a bit of both but favor more of the analytical approach, choosing to instead, intergrate any immersive stories into the questlines chosen for the build and lump it with RP. My recent night weaver build is an example of such. Whilst artwork or stylized screenshots are all fine and dandy, the one thing I am most concerned with is the build mechanics. I mean, have any of you played kingdoms of amalur? Man, that is what skyrim and elder scrolls online should be like in terms of combat, not this blocky chop suey kinda retard combat mechanics! Whilst it's hard to replicate that smooth transition of weapon to spells combat or even just use them along side each other in a stylized fashion (anyone tried firing off staff right after a sideway power strike with a one handed weapon?) some combat mechanics in skyrim can come close to achieving that, more so easier achieved with spells as compared to weapons. Interesting combo's that weave at least 3 spells in or combat moves + shouts for seamless 1-2 (ie: dual weild power strike + soul tear first shout) as the sort of things that will bring and awesome gameplay to this somewhT rather lackluster sorry excuse for combat in skyrim. RP wise the side quests and indeed some faction main quests give you plenty of opportunity to live out your role play... Just need to know where to look for the class your're playing, Tip: to fully immerse yourself don't fast travel, travel by foot and only by carriage when you reach a town if rping a wanderer. Feeling tired of it? Buy a horse and ride all over.
• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  January 9, 2014

  I would argue that putting roleplay before gameplay is kind of off-putting to the majority of readers. There was a discussion in CB about what people look for in the builds and the majority was interested in gameplay. That said, if both sections are well and uniquely presented they certainly won't stop on RP section. I'm with others on RP section, newly introduced RP Profiles allow both more room for character development and does not wander off from the gameplay parts of the character build. Personally I'd put the brief insight into characters motives in Introduction and maybe reinforce it via short quotes here and there. 

  I would argue that putting roleplay before gameplay is kind of off-putting to the majority of readers. There was a discussion in CB about what people look for in the builds and the majority was interested in gameplay. That said, if both sections are well and uniquely presented they certainly won't stop on RP section. I'm with others on RP section, newly introduced RP Profiles allow both more room for character development and does not wander off from the gameplay parts of the character build. Personally I'd put the brief insight into characters motives in Introduction and maybe reinforce it via short quotes here and there. 

• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  January 9, 2014

  I agree, Skyrim combat system has a number of flaws, but it accomplishes something unique - it gives an ability to create a lot of different playstyles with it's limited palette of combat moves and abilities. On the writing style, personally I prefer style of Henson and NoSnakes aLive who present the build in analytic style but also add flavor to it with various expressions showing passion of the author. Plain dry descriptions put me off more than mediocre story-based approach, it makes me feel the author "playtested the build" rather than "played the character".

  I agree, Skyrim combat system has a number of flaws, but it accomplishes something unique - it gives an ability to create a lot of different playstyles with it's limited palette of combat moves and abilities. On the writing style, personally I prefer style of Henson and NoSnakes aLive who present the build in analytic style but also add flavor to it with various expressions showing passion of the author. Plain dry descriptions put me off more than mediocre story-based approach, it makes me feel the author "playtested the build" rather than "played the character".

• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  January 9, 2014

  What does it mean for a perk spread to be "incomplete"? Does using, for example, 3 perks in Enchanter count as "incomplete" perk spread? 

  What does it mean for a perk spread to be "incomplete"? Does using, for example, 3 perks in Enchanter count as "incomplete" perk spread? 

• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  January 9, 2014

  I'm curious about one thing. I once played a "no perks" character and found it quite viable (Master). I wonder will using minimal number of needed perks put off the reader even if it's explained later?

  I'm curious about one thing. I once played a "no perks" character and found it quite viable (Master). I wonder will using minimal number of needed perks put off the reader even if it's explained later?

• Albino

  

  Member
   

  January 9, 2014

  An incomplete perk spread is one that gives off the impression that the build hasn't realized its full potential. For example, a build that lists One-Handed as a major skill yet only has 2/5 Armsman and Fighting Stance would probably be an incomplete perk spread. However, this doesn't mean that all perk trees have to be filled out and all ranks of each perk taken (in your Enchanter example, our hypothetical builder might've decided against the last two ranks for balance reasons).

  An incomplete perk spread is one that gives off the impression that the build hasn't realized its full potential. For example, a build that lists One-Handed as a major skill yet only has 2/5 Armsman and Fighting Stance would probably be an incomplete perk spread. However, this doesn't mean that all perk trees have to be filled out and all ranks of each perk taken (in your Enchanter example, our hypothetical builder might've decided against the last two ranks for balance reasons).

• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  January 9, 2014

  Yes, that's what I meant. The same One-Handed skill could've also been taken for balance reasons. I'm curious whether it will be off-putting to a reader even if the reasons are explained later? Maybe it's better to explain that before perk spread?

  Yes, that's what I meant. The same One-Handed skill could've also been taken for balance reasons. I'm curious whether it will be off-putting to a reader even if the reasons are explained later? Maybe it's better to explain that before perk spread?

• Warlocksg

  

  Member
   

  January 9, 2014

  Agreed... On the perception of the mechanical feeling of an Analytical build... Though, I would rather not have my passions influence the potential player of my build... The passion of my more recent builds is in the RP aspect in itself which is tied to the quests identified... Still to each his own I suppose..

  Agreed... On the perception of the mechanical feeling of an Analytical build... Though, I would rather not have my passions influence the potential player of my build... The passion of my more recent builds is in the RP aspect in itself which is tied to the quests identified... Still to each his own I suppose..