Paws said:
I feel a bit like Vivec in ESO Morrowind - My energy levels are so low. In early January I switched jobs and went from a nightshift to permanent days. It's weird because I was on nights for five years and my whole perception of time has changed, my body has difficulty adapting even after a month... Time seems to move faster and I get less sleep. I think I was expecting to sleep better. I wake up more cheerful, though, feel more alive most days. Overall a positive change, I just need to hurry up and adapt :D
I feel like that every winter. Which means the greater part of the year. And time moves like an old sick turtle, winter seems eternal, endless days of darkness and cold. But do you like your new job? Changing places is always a stress, huh?
Paws said:
I think that's a good reply! I can't really disagree with your assessment of Tonal Architecture. It's the manipulation of the Earthbones which make up the laws of reality from the weather to gravity. Other things besides Kaggy's Tools can also manipulate these forces, such s the Thu'um or the Akaviri Kai, or the Spinners of Valenwood's yarns.
Also, can't disagree with your summary on Dragon Break :) In essence, time goes back to the non-linearity present in the Dawn Era. Parallel timelines in which the same event unfolds but plays out diffferently with diverse outcomes occur, then those timelines merge into one coherent timeline when the break ends.
I mean it's your choice to accept or reject, but there is too much to reject imo. Thing is, Vivec achieves CHIM, and that more than anything gives him the ability to step outside reality and remake it. We don't know precisely when he attains this state, but that question itself might be moot when talking about someone who can step outside of time and reality in order to shape it. So we've got this scenario in which the Dragon Breaks at Red Mountain. Time is non-linear, there is no past, present or future as they exist in tandem with each other. Vivec the mortal street rat-turned Councilor creates a new scenario in which he was born with the powers he just took. He records everything that happened in true warrior-poet style, lives out this fantasy and really does fight the Ruddy Man and split the earth which forms West Gash etc, etc. When the break ends, that reality along with every other scenario all become part of what is, in linear time, now the past.
On one hand I agree with you in that it's all fiction, but on the other it did happen. The biggest problem with dismissing the Sermons as being fictional or allegorical, or even Temple propaganda, is that you'd then need to precisely say what happened at Red Mountain. By that I mean there are so many different accounts of what happened that we can only say for sure what the final outcome was. By dismissing the Lessons you place yourself in a position in which you need to account for the others, too. Otherwise you're left saying "all the rest are possible except this one" and that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Like why would Vivec's deeds during a Dragon Break be untrue but Sul's actions be true, for example?
So yes, a Dragon Break doesn't allow fiction to become true. But it does allow new possibilities to happen in what will eventually be seen as the past. I could write a story now and then the Dragon Breaks - My story remains fiction. But if I use that break to act out the story then that fiction will become fact. Ie, it happened because I made it happen.
I'm not rejecting or dismissing anything. All I'm saying is that Vivec's lessons arent' to be taken literally. It's not their purpose. The whole book is an allegorical retelling of Vivec's mental and spiritual progress. Mental and spiritual, not material. It has indeed happened, but only in Vivec's head. It doesn't affect the world, but it affects Vivec. And beside being Temple propaganda, it's also his message to the Dunmeri people and anyone who reads it, an actual lesson.
But did Vivec really achieve CHIM? Or did he almost achieve it, or something like that? If he did, why did he lose his divine powers along with Almalexia and Sotha Sil? Had he achieved CHIM, he would have powers of his own, not dependant on Lorky's heart, no? I doubt that achieving CHIM is a matter of a moment. On the contrary, I'm inclined to believe that it's a process that takes time (and a huge change of mindset). Most likely, Vivec was in some stage of that process, which started back there at the Red Mountain, but was never finished.
There are enough sources to allow us to get an approximate notion of how all these processes work. We don't need to know in exact details what happened at the Red Mountain, only what could and couldn't happen there. Things like who killed Nerevar and who used the Tools on the Heart, all of it is largely irrelevant.
The thing with Dragon Breaks is that multiple timelines only exist during the Break itself. Basically you cannot go back in time and live some past moment differently. You only can live the current moment in several different ways. And then the Dragon reconciles and all the timelines end in the same outcome. So it's not important who killed Nerevar, the only thing that matters is that he is dead. It doesn't matter if the fake memories Vivec created in his head are real - what matters is that he is a god. Vivec couldn't act out the story itself, he only could make it up in his head and act as if it happened, which is largely irrelevant - he would be a god even without it. Also, it was his divine power that allowed it to happen, not the Break itself. So if you or some farmer in Cyrodiil wrote a story and then a Dragon Break happened, his story wouldn't become real even in his head.
Paws said:
Okay, I don't understand this. The Final Report hinges on the idea that the Dwemer were un-creating their way back up the gradient ladder. The gradient ladder starts with two forces, and from those two forces all of everything is created. Like, Anu begets Anuiel who begets Auriel who, in turn, begets the other spirits who, in turn, beget mortals etc. The Dwemer disappear because they go back up the gradient ladder by one step. They create their own oversoul or supergradient which is the Numidium. It's like if we imagine Auriel saying, "I wanna go back to being Anuiel." The Numidium was then supposed to keep climbing that gradient ladder right back to the start.
The Final Report describes what was their plan. Which didn't end exactly as they planned. But it doesn't give the ultimate answer as to why. One particular detail in the whole Dwemeri plan seems rather faulty to me.
If we look at the creation myth, we can see that it is a process of splitting and reforming or aspects. Anu (who is Everything) reflects on himself and thus appear Anui-El and Sithis, Order and Chaos, two very basic yet very complex aspects. Let's say Light and Darkness (aka the absence of light), White and Black. Then, in the Grey Maybe that is between White and Black, more aspects appear. They are less abstract, more self-aware, let's say they have not just color but also shape. Auri-El is the most ordered, the most white, and Lorkhan perhaps the most black, with all the others in various colors in between, but each is unique and different. Then Mundus is created and more lesser aspects appear, even more defined and less abstract. Let's say, where the et'Ada would be something like white sphere or grey cube, the Ehlnofey are more like an orange or a tomato. Then they become even more defined as various races of mer and men. And every mortal has a whole mix of various traits that can be attributed to many aspects. You get what I mean, yes?
So as I see it, what Dwemer wanted to do was to assemble a bunch of what was basically a mix of pieces of various fruit into a single red cube, it is impossible no matter what kind of Tonal Architecture you use, because of Lorkhan's limitations obviously, otherwise the Aedra wouldn't have any problem unmaking the world back in the Dawn Era. Because of Lorkhan, there's no way back, only forward. So instead of returning to the abstract shape they never were, they were stripped of everything that made them themselves. They trapped the life force part of their souls in the Numidium and the personality part got erased.
(I also have a suspicion that Dwemer had some sort of telepathic link between them and that might also be a reason why Yagrum Bagarn lost some of his memories. But alas, nothing to prove or disprove this with.)
Paws said:
To be honest, no I am not certain. It's just a very complex piece of lore. Boethia, Azura and Mephala are demons - they are subgradients of Sithis, or "Padomaics." Lorkhan is of this same breed, he himself is a subgradient of Sithis who is a subgradient of Padomay. We know that both the Dwemer and the Tribunal used the Heart and something similar happened to both: The Dwemer become an oversoul as do the Tribunal, and the thing linking them both is the Heart. Are they both now subgradients of Lorkhan or even Sithis? Or are their oversouls independent of the original structure of that ladder? I do not know the answer, but I also think it doesn't matter.
It doesn't seem that complex to me, quite the opposite. The Almsivi didn't have their own divine power - they borrowed it from Lorkhan's heart. Which means that they didn't have their own divine AE - because while their power was from Lorkhan, they are not him, not the right shape. The Enantiomorph enabled their connection to the Heart, and that was all. So they linked themselves to the three Daedra and borrowed their aspects - this way, they could get power from their worshippers.
With the Dwemer, the whole sequence was different. First, no Enantiomorph. Second, they didn't have actual connection to the Heart, the Numidium had. But the Numidium is not the same thing as them - no more than a soul gem is the same as the person who was soultrapped with it.
Paws said:
Ha! Well I think it's more specific than saying that, but yes maybe. Perhaps that accounts for the differences? In the end result is something that will smell and taste like potato and onions to some degree :D
Depending on whatever other ingredients that may be there, smell and taste can vary quite a lot.
Paws said:
That is ultimately the very crux of it: He can be certain about A, B and C and be totally clueless about D... except he doesn't tell us that, which is what makes him unreliable. In the CWC dlc the story sort of revolves around Proctor Luciana, a woman who loses faith in Sil after he refuses to save the life of her child. It's powerful stuff and incredibly well written while also largely unfolding in books you find. Anyway, he refuses to save her child because one day he knows she will "shine a light." It's crypyic but verifies his certainty - Sotha Sil knew back then he'd need her in the future so had to sacrifice her child for the sake of his greater good. So now we have this situation in which we can verify his certainty as well as hear him tell us that. He goes from being totally reliable to completely unreliable. I think it's very clever.
This doesn't make him unreliable any more than any other character. Everyone can lie and pursue their own goals, be it the greater good or anything else. In that way, no character is 100% reliable. But Sotha at least knows what he is doing. Most of the time.
That doesn't really make him a dick btw. It's not like he is supposed to tell you what he does and doesn't know or save anyone's children.
If anything, it's this Proctor who makes me raise an eyebrow. If she loses faith in him because he refused to save her kid, why had she initially started following him? It's not like he was ever known as The Guy Who Saves Children.
Paws said:
Possibly? If Talos is described as such and is connected to Lorkhan through deeds and myths, then what he says in the Prophet's speech could be the biggest indicator of Lorkhan's motives. "Let us join as one to fortify this throne, this land, these people, each one glorious under heaven!"
Whenever a Shezarrine appears something chaotic happens and the status quo is interrupted. But those moments of chaos also serve a purpose. In the case of humans and ayleids, an unjust society was thrown down making way for a better one. It needed a ctalyst to happen. In the case of the CoC, Umaril returns and the world needed a new Divine Crusader. In the case of TES V the world needed a saviour so that these disperate societies could continue existing. The pattern is pretty consistent.
Uh-huh. It smells like potato, what it can be if not potato soup? Lol.
I would take the words of any "prophet" with a plate of salt, but I digress.
These words actually sound like Talos, or rather the Imperials' image of Talos. But do they fit Lorkhan?
Talos is a very Anuic fellow, much, much more so than Lorkhan could ever be, and that is only natural, he is a Dragonborn after all. Such a fellow prefers building over destroying, and when he destroys, it's only so he can build something new that suit his goals better.
Lorkhan? Change for the sake of change. He doesn't build. He destroys and then leaves the ruins for others to rebuild or build something new, or whatever. It's not the Shezarrine who builds, it's Alessia or whoever.
Seriously, a better society? Let's look at a larger time period. If we were talking about the earlier version of the Ayleid society, when they were just a bunch of elves who wanted to have their own country where they could worship Daedra all they wanted, you probably would say they wanted to create a better society. But if we were talking about the later version of the Alessian Empire, is it any better than the Ayleids?
Also, how about the Khajiit Pelly killed just because he thought they were elves? Were they an unjust society too? And how about Wulfharth and the Chimer? Did his Nords attack the Chimer because they were an unjust society?
A Shezarrine appears to cause change. Not necessarily a good one. To Lorky, any change is better than stasis, because that's his nature. And of course he would side with men against elves, because men are his pals.
The PCs though, they don't cause change. More like they prevent it.
Paws said:
That maybe so. All I can do is look at the pattern and see similarities with what has gone before. I can't predict what will happen in TES VI, but I would put money on it bearing many similarities to TES V in that the world needs this unamed Prisoner who turns up at the right time in the right place to avert disaster or affect meaningful change for the better. Hopefully that means the Redguards need a new HoonDing to rediscover the lost art of sword-singing and proceed to kick the yellow off Thalmor butts and bring High Elven culture back to Tamriel unsullied by extremist factions, thereby bringing an end to the Great War storyline and peace to tamriel once again.
As for the HoonDing himself, I do not know. He is the spirit or avatar of something. What precisely remains tbd.
This pattern exists in every story about every hero, not only in TES but in every tale ever. There is some trouble, then a hero comes and saves the day. It's a natural order of things. A brave man who cares for his people would do everything he can to help them. no? He doesn't need to be an avatar of anyone for that.
There aren't any yellow butts in Hammerfell since 4E180, but yeah, let's give Redguards their (thankfully) lost art of sword-singing, so they can blow Tamriel up just like they blew up Yokuda. Nothing is more fun than a bunch of hot-headed fellows with a nuke.
[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]
I feel a bit like Vivec in ESO Morrowind - My energy levels are so low. In early January I switched jobs and went from a nightshift to permanent days. It's weird because I was on nights for five years and my whole perception of time has changed, my body has difficulty adapting even after a month... Time seems to move faster and I get less sleep. I think I was expecting to sleep better. I wake up more cheerful, though, feel more alive most days. Overall a positive change, I just need to hurry up and adapt :D
[/blockquote]
I feel like that every winter. Which means the greater part of the year. And time moves like an old sick turtle, winter seems eternal, endless days of darkness and cold. But do you like your new job? Changing places is always a stress, huh?
[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]
I think that's a good reply! I can't really disagree with your assessment of Tonal Architecture. It's the manipulation of the Earthbones which make up the laws of reality from the weather to gravity. Other things besides Kaggy's Tools can also manipulate these forces, such s the Thu'um or the Akaviri Kai, or the Spinners of Valenwood's yarns.
Also, can't disagree with your summary on Dragon Break :) In essence, time goes back to the non-linearity present in the Dawn Era. Parallel timelines in which the same event unfolds but plays out diffferently with diverse outcomes occur, then those timelines merge into one coherent timeline when the break ends.
I mean it's your choice to accept or reject, but there is too much to reject imo. Thing is, Vivec achieves CHIM, and that more than anything gives him the ability to step outside reality and remake it. We don't know precisely when he attains this state, but that question itself might be moot when talking about someone who can step outside of time and reality in order to shape it. So we've got this scenario in which the Dragon Breaks at Red Mountain. Time is non-linear, there is no past, present or future as they exist in tandem with each other. Vivec the mortal street rat-turned Councilor creates a new scenario in which he was born with the powers he just took. He records everything that happened in true warrior-poet style, lives out this fantasy and really does fight the Ruddy Man and split the earth which forms West Gash etc, etc. When the break ends, that reality along with every other scenario all become part of what is, in linear time, now the past.
On one hand I agree with you in that it's all fiction, but on the other it did happen. The biggest problem with dismissing the Sermons as being fictional or allegorical, or even Temple propaganda, is that you'd then need to precisely say what happened at Red Mountain. By that I mean there are so many different accounts of what happened that we can only say for sure what the final outcome was. By dismissing the Lessons you place yourself in a position in which you need to account for the others, too. Otherwise you're left saying "all the rest are possible except this one" and that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Like why would Vivec's deeds during a Dragon Break be untrue but Sul's actions be true, for example?
So yes, a Dragon Break doesn't allow fiction to become true. But it does allow new possibilities to happen in what will eventually be seen as the past. I could write a story now and then the Dragon Breaks - My story remains fiction. But if I use that break to act out the story then that fiction will become fact. Ie, it happened because I made it happen.
[/blockquote]
I'm not rejecting or dismissing anything. All I'm saying is that Vivec's lessons arent' to be taken literally. It's not their purpose. The whole book is an allegorical retelling of Vivec's mental and spiritual progress. Mental and spiritual, not material. It has indeed happened, but only in Vivec's head. It doesn't affect the world, but it affects Vivec. And beside being Temple propaganda, it's also his message to the Dunmeri people and anyone who reads it, an actual lesson.
But did Vivec really achieve CHIM? Or did he almost achieve it, or something like that? If he did, why did he lose his divine powers along with Almalexia and Sotha Sil? Had he achieved CHIM, he would have powers of his own, not dependant on Lorky's heart, no? I doubt that achieving CHIM is a matter of a moment. On the contrary, I'm inclined to believe that it's a process that takes time (and a huge change of mindset). Most likely, Vivec was in some stage of that process, which started back there at the Red Mountain, but was never finished.
There are enough sources to allow us to get an approximate notion of how all these processes work. We don't need to know in exact details what happened at the Red Mountain, only what could and couldn't happen there. Things like who killed Nerevar and who used the Tools on the Heart, all of it is largely irrelevant.
The thing with Dragon Breaks is that multiple timelines only exist during the Break itself. Basically you cannot go back in time and live some past moment differently. You only can live the current moment in several different ways. And then the Dragon reconciles and all the timelines end in the same outcome. So it's not important who killed Nerevar, the only thing that matters is that he is dead. It doesn't matter if the fake memories Vivec created in his head are real - what matters is that he is a god. Vivec couldn't act out the story itself, he only could make it up in his head and act as if it happened, which is largely irrelevant - he would be a god even without it. Also, it was his divine power that allowed it to happen, not the Break itself. So if you or some farmer in Cyrodiil wrote a story and then a Dragon Break happened, his story wouldn't become real even in his head.
[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]
Okay, I don't understand this. The Final Report hinges on the idea that the Dwemer were un-creating their way back up the gradient ladder. The gradient ladder starts with two forces, and from those two forces all of everything is created. Like, Anu begets Anuiel who begets Auriel who, in turn, begets the other spirits who, in turn, beget mortals etc. The Dwemer disappear because they go back up the gradient ladder by one step. They create their own oversoul or supergradient which is the Numidium. It's like if we imagine Auriel saying, "I wanna go back to being Anuiel." The Numidium was then supposed to keep climbing that gradient ladder right back to the start.
[/blockquote]
The Final Report describes what was their plan. Which didn't end exactly as they planned. But it doesn't give the ultimate answer as to why. One particular detail in the whole Dwemeri plan seems rather faulty to me.
If we look at the creation myth, we can see that it is a process of splitting and reforming or aspects. Anu (who is Everything) reflects on himself and thus appear Anui-El and Sithis, Order and Chaos, two very basic yet very complex aspects. Let's say Light and Darkness (aka the absence of light), White and Black. Then, in the Grey Maybe that is between White and Black, more aspects appear. They are less abstract, more self-aware, let's say they have not just color but also shape. Auri-El is the most ordered, the most white, and Lorkhan perhaps the most black, with all the others in various colors in between, but each is unique and different. Then Mundus is created and more lesser aspects appear, even more defined and less abstract. Let's say, where the et'Ada would be something like white sphere or grey cube, the Ehlnofey are more like an orange or a tomato. Then they become even more defined as various races of mer and men. And every mortal has a whole mix of various traits that can be attributed to many aspects. You get what I mean, yes?
So as I see it, what Dwemer wanted to do was to assemble a bunch of what was basically a mix of pieces of various fruit into a single red cube, it is impossible no matter what kind of Tonal Architecture you use, because of Lorkhan's limitations obviously, otherwise the Aedra wouldn't have any problem unmaking the world back in the Dawn Era. Because of Lorkhan, there's no way back, only forward. So instead of returning to the abstract shape they never were, they were stripped of everything that made them themselves. They trapped the life force part of their souls in the Numidium and the personality part got erased.
(I also have a suspicion that Dwemer had some sort of telepathic link between them and that might also be a reason why Yagrum Bagarn lost some of his memories. But alas, nothing to prove or disprove this with.)
[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]
To be honest, no I am not certain. It's just a very complex piece of lore. Boethia, Azura and Mephala are demons - they are subgradients of Sithis, or "Padomaics." Lorkhan is of this same breed, he himself is a subgradient of Sithis who is a subgradient of Padomay. We know that both the Dwemer and the Tribunal used the Heart and something similar happened to both: The Dwemer become an oversoul as do the Tribunal, and the thing linking them both is the Heart. Are they both now subgradients of Lorkhan or even Sithis? Or are their oversouls independent of the original structure of that ladder? I do not know the answer, but I also think it doesn't matter.
[/blockquote]
It doesn't seem that complex to me, quite the opposite. The Almsivi didn't have their own divine power - they borrowed it from Lorkhan's heart. Which means that they didn't have their own divine AE - because while their power was from Lorkhan, they are not him, not the right shape. The Enantiomorph enabled their connection to the Heart, and that was all. So they linked themselves to the three Daedra and borrowed their aspects - this way, they could get power from their worshippers.
With the Dwemer, the whole sequence was different. First, no Enantiomorph. Second, they didn't have actual connection to the Heart, the Numidium had. But the Numidium is not the same thing as them - no more than a soul gem is the same as the person who was soultrapped with it.
[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]
Ha! Well I think it's more specific than saying that, but yes maybe. Perhaps that accounts for the differences? In the end result is something that will smell and taste like potato and onions to some degree :D
[/blockquote]
Depending on whatever other ingredients that may be there, smell and taste can vary quite a lot.
[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]
That is ultimately the very crux of it: He can be certain about A, B and C and be totally clueless about D... except he doesn't tell us that, which is what makes him unreliable. In the CWC dlc the story sort of revolves around Proctor Luciana, a woman who loses faith in Sil after he refuses to save the life of her child. It's powerful stuff and incredibly well written while also largely unfolding in books you find. Anyway, he refuses to save her child because one day he knows she will "shine a light." It's crypyic but verifies his certainty - Sotha Sil knew back then he'd need her in the future so had to sacrifice her child for the sake of his greater good. So now we have this situation in which we can verify his certainty as well as hear him tell us that. He goes from being totally reliable to completely unreliable. I think it's very clever.
[/blockquote]
This doesn't make him unreliable any more than any other character. Everyone can lie and pursue their own goals, be it the greater good or anything else. In that way, no character is 100% reliable. But Sotha at least knows what he is doing. Most of the time.
That doesn't really make him a dick btw. It's not like he is supposed to tell you what he does and doesn't know or save anyone's children.
If anything, it's this Proctor who makes me raise an eyebrow. If she loses faith in him because he refused to save her kid, why had she initially started following him? It's not like he was ever known as The Guy Who Saves Children.
[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]
Possibly? If Talos is described as such and is connected to Lorkhan through deeds and myths, then what he says in the Prophet's speech could be the biggest indicator of Lorkhan's motives. "Let us join as one to fortify this throne, this land, these people, each one glorious under heaven!"
Whenever a Shezarrine appears something chaotic happens and the status quo is interrupted. But those moments of chaos also serve a purpose. In the case of humans and ayleids, an unjust society was thrown down making way for a better one. It needed a ctalyst to happen. In the case of the CoC, Umaril returns and the world needed a new Divine Crusader. In the case of TES V the world needed a saviour so that these disperate societies could continue existing. The pattern is pretty consistent.
[/blockquote]
Uh-huh. It smells like potato, what it can be if not potato soup? Lol.
I would take the words of any "prophet" with a plate of salt, but I digress.
These words actually sound like Talos, or rather the Imperials' image of Talos. But do they fit Lorkhan?
Talos is a very Anuic fellow, much, much more so than Lorkhan could ever be, and that is only natural, he is a Dragonborn after all. Such a fellow prefers building over destroying, and when he destroys, it's only so he can build something new that suit his goals better.
Lorkhan? Change for the sake of change. He doesn't build. He destroys and then leaves the ruins for others to rebuild or build something new, or whatever. It's not the Shezarrine who builds, it's Alessia or whoever.
Seriously, a better society? Let's look at a larger time period. If we were talking about the earlier version of the Ayleid society, when they were just a bunch of elves who wanted to have their own country where they could worship Daedra all they wanted, you probably would say they wanted to create a better society. But if we were talking about the later version of the Alessian Empire, is it any better than the Ayleids?
Also, how about the Khajiit Pelly killed just because he thought they were elves? Were they an unjust society too? And how about Wulfharth and the Chimer? Did his Nords attack the Chimer because they were an unjust society?
A Shezarrine appears to cause change. Not necessarily a good one. To Lorky, any change is better than stasis, because that's his nature. And of course he would side with men against elves, because men are his pals.
The PCs though, they don't cause change. More like they prevent it.
[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]
That maybe so. All I can do is look at the pattern and see similarities with what has gone before. I can't predict what will happen in TES VI, but I would put money on it bearing many similarities to TES V in that the world needs this unamed Prisoner who turns up at the right time in the right place to avert disaster or affect meaningful change for the better. Hopefully that means the Redguards need a new HoonDing to rediscover the lost art of sword-singing and proceed to kick the yellow off Thalmor butts and bring High Elven culture back to Tamriel unsullied by extremist factions, thereby bringing an end to the Great War storyline and peace to tamriel once again.
As for the HoonDing himself, I do not know. He is the spirit or avatar of something. What precisely remains tbd.
[/blockquote]
This pattern exists in every story about every hero, not only in TES but in every tale ever. There is some trouble, then a hero comes and saves the day. It's a natural order of things. A brave man who cares for his people would do everything he can to help them. no? He doesn't need to be an avatar of anyone for that.
There aren't any yellow butts in Hammerfell since 4E180, but yeah, let's give Redguards their (thankfully) lost art of sword-singing, so they can blow Tamriel up just like they blew up Yokuda. Nothing is more fun than a bunch of hot-headed fellows with a nuke.
