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• Matt Feeney the New Guy

  

  • 1124 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:03 PM EST

  Due to the discussion going on I figure I would post an actual discussion so we won't clog up some builds.
  
  What are your opinions of the Thalmor (or even the Altmer as a whole)? And your opinions of the Empire itself? Give us your opinion in this controversial topic.
• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:16 PM EST

  I can't stand the Thalmor, I know they're not evil, Vix and Dieter tried to convert me to the Aldmeri side many times now. They just have a different way of looking at things, the thing is that their attitude makes them sound downright racist, close-minded and like utter bastards. Wich is one of the main reasons they could never create a peaceful Empire without having to kill all humans because humans would rebel constantly.

  The Empire is quite like the Roman Empire, like any country with a long history of conquest, they have done plenty of ''bad'' things, but I believe they also have done more than enough good things to compensate for it, they have brought peace and prosperity to almost everyone now didn't they? 

  So like I said earlier, saying the Empire is evil is like saying the Roman Empire is evil and that would be looking at things like some of these guys:

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:25 PM EST

  If only it were that simple.

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:25 PM EST

  I hate the Thalmor because they are a bunch of whiny elves, Talos Guide Us!
• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:26 PM EST

  Vix is going to have your head on a silver plate if you're not careful.

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:27 PM EST

  I'm joking... As far you all know :P
• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:34 PM EST

  I can't stand the Thalmor mostly because I have a deep dislike for theocracies, while it is true the Imperials were born out of a culture of violence they seem more tolerant to daedra worship and the sort. I dislike those who persecute for different faith and see that close-mindedness with the Thalmor. The Altmer can give tamriel a great future but their government, would need to be more secular and less intolerant as well as  not being run by religious fanatics. I also see that hypocrisy with the Imperials of persecution but currently to a lesser degree. Being a theocracy didn't work for Imperials back in the order of Alessia times. It will certainly will fail when the Altmer try it. I have no love for the Nords either, biggest hypocrites imo. For me the Imperials deserve to keep their Empire or Thalmor gov. takes a more secular stance and should lead tamriel to greatness. But currently Imperials being NOW more open minded and tolerant are the best choice for peace.

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:34 PM EST

  They did bring it to them, alot of those peoples didn't agree with the Empire on many things, but no one can deny that while under Imperial rule the people didn't enjoy peace and prosperity. In fact, explain to me why the Empire was so bad for those cultures, aside from the wars.

• Matt Feeney the New Guy

  

  • 1124 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:37 PM EST

  I think ole' Tiber brought the exact opposite of peace in the form of genocide, religious persecution, slavery, and political corruption/intimidation.
• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:37 PM EST

  I'm pretty sure war is all it takes to hate a government (Vietnam war)
• Deleted Member

  
   

  February 18, 2013 5:39 PM EST

  I end up murdering all the thalmor I see just because I don't like their attitude. They are just plain irritating supremacists who have no consideration for anyone.

  And I honestly couldn't care more who tells me they aren't evil. There is no definition of "good" and "evil", there's points of view. And from my point of view, they're evil.

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:40 PM EST

  The Aldmeri Dominion and the Empire are similar. Both want as much power as possible, the Empire wants it for themselves and the Dominion wants it for themselves. The Dominion wants power to make everyone more civilized, the Empire wants power to make everyone more civilized. They both see their own civilisation as the most advanced and that's why they fight.

  The Empire are not as good as propaganda from previous games tells you. They pulled all their forces to their home provinces during the Oblivion crisis leaving other to die. The other provinces where not allowed to have their own army as every military forces was the Legion. It was their responsibility to keep them safe because of reason and they left all of them to die. Sure, they've brought peace and prosperity, but they got that by playing it dirty. The usage of Numidium against the Altmer for example, which is the same thing as the nukes on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Those are in my opinion by far the worst crimes of war so far in human history. The Empire are those war criminals in my eyes.

  The Dominion only want to conquer others now, to make permanent peace and bring a more advanced society to Tamriel. So basically they're doing exactly what the Empire did in the beginning of the 3d Era, they're no different. And even though they haven't used a WMD they are probably just as mentally capable of doing so.

  That all being said, it's really a personal preference of whom you see as "the best". For me it's the Dominion because the Empire had their chance and screwed up in my opinion, and the Dominion deserves a try as well.

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:41 PM EST

  "And I honestly couldn't care more who tells me they aren't evil. There is no definition of "good" and "evil", there's points of view. And from my point of view, they're evil."
  
  ...
  
  If there is no definition for good and evil, then how can you view something as such? Paradox
• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:42 PM EST

  Then you also shouldn't forget that before that, the humans were also being enslaved and murdered by the Elves. Anyway, what Talos did was for a much shorter period of time, sure, the pantheon had been forced upon the Altmer, but they weren't forced to worship Talos. 

  Also, those things you mentioned mainly happend during the Allesian times.

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:45 PM EST

  Those Thalmor are chosen to be there for their behaviour. They have to cause turmoil to weaken the Empire and it's working because the Imperials agreed to those religious laws. I see them not a religious fanatics since they're not quite that, but I see it as a political master move.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:45 PM EST

  They outlawed Talos worship period, not just ''dangerous cults who worship talos''. 

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:47 PM EST

  Read this.

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:47 PM EST

  Well actually the Atmorans, the first humans, landed in Skyrim and they started killing elves, not the other way around. Starting to kill people as soon as you enter their lands for the first time is pretty much a declaration of war.

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:48 PM EST

  I'm pretty sure the Falmer attacked the Atmorans first because there were so many they considered them too much of a thread.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:48 PM EST

  We decide what is good and evil Brynjolf as individuals and a society based on our thinking and emotions, good and evil are subjective as each person has their own opinionated viewpoint of what good and evil is. That is why it is subjective and there is no absolute moral viewpoint.

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:49 PM EST

  I don't think so.

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:51 PM EST

  Whats this then?

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:53 PM EST

  That wasn't really the point. The point was that the Empire couldn't do anything, nor could anyone else. You can't blame the Empire for not solving something that couldn't be solved by them or anyone else.

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:53 PM EST

  No one knows what happened. Some say the Falmer attacked first, some say the Nords attacked. It's all speculation
• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 5:53 PM EST

  Proof that there was an attack on Saarthal to get the Eye of Magnus, that thing that brainwashes people. There is no proof in this that the Falmer actually started the war.