Forums » Elder Scrolls

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:32 PM EST

  Not in a Medieval world, which TES is. The Empire does the same thing as the Thalmor, people who worship deadra for example are not allowed to even live inside of a city.

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:33 PM EST

  And who do you think needed more space to expand?

• Kyrielle Atrinati

  

  • 291 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:36 PM EST

  Be that as it may, TES doesn't occur in modern society, and the notions of civil rights and religious freedom are very recent practices even in our world (if you compare human behavior over the last 6000+ year of recorded history).  While it may not be morally acceptable to either of us (I don't agree with their practices either), at the time it was absolutely the correct thing to do.  People 200 years back would have (and have done) just the same thing as both the Empire and the Thalmor.

• Knight-Paladin Robert

  

  • 264 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:37 PM EST

  Most Atmorans came from a land of war, the almost breathe war, and Snow Elves admiting them into their lands shows they were not aggressive. IMO the men started fighting between themselves when they found the Eye and the Falmer wanted to take the cause of war out of their hands and ended up in a war. Being outnumbered most "humans" died making Ysgramor go get the Companions and murder every elf they came across, being child woman of man.
• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:37 PM EST

  Well to be honest they don't really need that much space in the ES universe.

  Besides, before being able to imply that the Atmorans came into confict with the Elves, we first need to know how much space the Elves took up, and we don't.

  Also, we already covered that the Falmer struck first, so no use going down that route again.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:38 PM EST

  Dieter what I am saying is its not justified to persecute people for a certain belief regardless of a time period.  would you say slavery is moral in TES because it is in medieval times. What I am getting at is, Thalmor persecute different faiths so do Imperials but Imperials do it to a much lesser degree.  Thalmor allowing worship of Daedra and Aedra. Imperials allow worship of Aedra, Daedra, and Talos so they seem slightly less fanatical. Hey these aren't the best choices but its the only ones we got.

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:40 PM EST

  But so is thinking slavery is wrong, and yet the Empire banned its practice.

  Also nationalism is very present in the ES universe. Its an odd world that.

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:42 PM EST

  Matt creates a discussion to debate the thalmor
  
  ...
  
  Everyone debates about the Falmer, daedric princes, civil rights, real life history
  
  ...
  
  What?
• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:43 PM EST

  No, we didn't cover that the Falmer struck first, but that they attacked Saarthal. There is no proof of who struck first and in my opinion it's the Atmorians, since in that situation and with their culture it seems like it's by far the most likely thing to happen.

• Knight-Paladin Robert

  

  • 264 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:43 PM EST

  The problem here is that marking them as evil, bad, unfair or wrong is not justified. They are fighting for what is right(at least on their eyes) the Thalmor being extremist to get things done are not just assasins, example Ulfric's interrogation. He still lives right?(unless you joined the imperials). They are trying to end a wrong worship of a false god, like how the crusades tried with the other kingdoms; not nicely, but not backing down
• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:44 PM EST

  Bro, go back a few pages.

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:44 PM EST

  This is more intresting.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:45 PM EST

  Why is not justified? We use reasons to argue for why we think a certain side is bad no group or idea is exempt from that.

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:47 PM EST

  Again, for the fourth time, Talos worship is allowed by the Thalmor, but not worshipping as a Divine. Worshipping him as a Divine which he by any means cannot be, is basically sentencing yourself to death by religious extremism as well. Since they choose to take that risk. If they would leave away those stupid shrines and necklaces which portray him as a Divine they wouldn't have that problem, yet they don't. It's just as much their fault they die as it is of the Thalmor. And atleast the Dominion lets Deadra worshippers live a life in dignity. Unlike the Empire who treats them as dogs and rats. That's facism as well.

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:48 PM EST

  But again, why, there is no proof of anything a few pages back or anywhere else for that matter.

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:50 PM EST

  Daedra worship is actually not prohibited by law in Cyrodiil.

• Knight-Paladin Robert

  

  • 264 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:50 PM EST

  Then why does you justify a slaughter? Altmer dong go in killing everyone they find(unless in a war) the root out the problem and either kill(if dangerous), neutralize(removing from area) or interrogate him/her to find the reason of their wrongdoing. Nords just mark someone who isn't like them(even in the same mindset) as evil without reason. Why? Because they feel a threatened by all elves, since they could control magic.
• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:51 PM EST

  All sources suggest that the attack on Saarthaal was the first aggresive action, wich means the Falmer struck first.

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:52 PM EST

  Yet in Cyrodiil all those people have to live in tents next to the shrines because they aren't allowed to live in cities. In that case the entire Empire is breaking the law which makes them even worse.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:52 PM EST

  I don't disagree that the Talos worshipper are being extreme I'm just stating why the reasons why I believe the thalmor don't seem justified in their persecution. I didn't know the part about the daedra worshipers now I can't decide who's worse Thalmor or Imperials 

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:54 PM EST

  They are allowed in the cities. It's just that people, especially priests, would bother them, so they choose to live outside of the cities.

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:54 PM EST

  No it does not. It is never said that they stuck first but only that they struck. Nowhere is mentioned a reason for why they struck and since the Atmorians won they got the power to write things down for history as they wanted which gave them a pretty good shot at making them look like the victims. This is what happens to any winner and loser of a war and it makes just assuming that the Falmer struck first because they struck being gullible.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:55 PM EST

   When did I justify slaughter?

• Knight-Paladin Robert

  

  • 264 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:55 PM EST

  They don't outlaw it because they are not harming people in a big scale. Talos in the other hand is the fuel in Ulfric's rebellion to wage war and kill without remorse by just saying you are a heathen for not believing what I do(forcing a belief) that's harmful IMO
• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:57 PM EST

  In that period I would persecute them as well, ,just like anyone else. It's normal so we just do it. Society is like that so it's justified. If you think otherwise you are an outcast and not the general public which makes your opinion obsolete, pointless and worthless. That's how life was in Medieval times.