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General Lore Discussions

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  February 4, 2016

  It's good, the Serpent is Lorkhan and his ghost is the Shezarrine in a "as above so below sort of thing" it wanders about doing shit. So you're bang on the money, Lis. I think the connection between Pelinal and the Warrior is strong and we need to reconcile the two:

  And when they reached the place, they found as the boy promised, a single stone. And Ysmir, who was by now very old, laid at the foot of the stone and was taken up into the stars.

  The champions and housecarls looked up into the heavens and saw their king, the great Warrior, riding across the sky. And he was accompanied by three servants, a Lord, his Lady, and his mighty Steed. Ysmir the Forefather

  Also during the Late Merethic Era the legendary immortal hero, warrior, sorceror, and king variously known as Pelinal Whitestrake, Harrald Hairy Breeks, Ysmir, Hans the Fox, etc., wandered Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again. Before the Ages of Man

  The trouble is that The Serpent and the other constellations are so wrapped up with Yokudan myth that they carry with them that culture's biasis - Sep is bad, hmm kay?

  So, if Pelinal is The Warrior who is Ysmir who is a Shezarrine and therefore The Serpent, maybe what the Redguards see when the look at the sky - the Serpent threatening - is actually their own biased cultural view of something else entirely, The Serpent and Warrior working together or joining?

  It gets very Dragonlance very quick. You guys ever read those books? The constellations disappear from the sky when the gods are active in a way similar to how the TES constellations work.

  the Warrior's Very Aspect will Change according to the Times. If, for Example, His Lady is being threatened the Warrior will seem as if he is looking to His Left, Eyes blazing towards that Part of the Sky wherein she resides. Thus, to find the Serpent during the Warrior's Season look to where he looks, for that is where the Coiled Beast is active.

  Maybe during such times when The Missing God and The Dragon God are united something special happens in the night sky? During the Slave Rebellion, which way was The Warrior facing?

  For the Redguards, there is not much of a distinction between what we call Akatosh and Lorkhan. Their view on that dichotomy is more indivisible, with Satakal being both creator and destroyer.

  "To deny that the world must end is to deny that it began."
  "Satakal is the making and the unmaking, the birth and the death, love and fear."
  "For the world is the egg that Satakal laid, and the egg that in time Satakal shall eat."
  "To know Satakal, consider a river. As a snake sheds its skin and lives on, so a river sheds its water into the sea, yet is reborn at the source."
  "To be the Worldskin is to be everything, and to be everything is to be nothing."
  "Fear not the unbelievers, for believer and unbeliever alike shall be eaten by the Serpent God."
  "Does not the serpent made of sky above reflect the serpent made of sea below? Yea, it is so." Knowing Satakal

  We can see both Aka and Lork here and it is no surprise to those of us who see Lorkhan and Akatosh and parts of a whole and TLD as both Dragonborn and Shezarrine. That would be the real union of the two - shit gets done when they're together.

  So I guess the question boils down to whether you think Pelinal was Dragonborn as well as Shezarrine.

  Edit: Dammit, Lis. Now I am confused as fuck and chasing a question there is no answer to.

  It's good, the Serpent is Lorkhan and his ghost is the Shezarrine in a "as above so below sort of thing" it wanders about doing shit. So you're bang on the money, Lis. I think the connection between Pelinal and the Warrior is strong and we need to reconcile the two:

  And when they reached the place, they found as the boy promised, a single stone. And Ysmir, who was by now very old, laid at the foot of the stone and was taken up into the stars.

  The champions and housecarls looked up into the heavens and saw their king, the great Warrior, riding across the sky. And he was accompanied by three servants, a Lord, his Lady, and his mighty Steed. Ysmir the Forefather

  Also during the Late Merethic Era the legendary immortal hero, warrior, sorceror, and king variously known as Pelinal Whitestrake, Harrald Hairy Breeks, Ysmir, Hans the Fox, etc., wandered Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again. Before the Ages of Man

  The trouble is that The Serpent and the other constellations are so wrapped up with Yokudan myth that they carry with them that culture's biasis - Sep is bad, hmm kay?

  So, if Pelinal is The Warrior who is Ysmir who is a Shezarrine and therefore The Serpent, maybe what the Redguards see when the look at the sky - the Serpent threatening - is actually their own biased cultural view of something else entirely, The Serpent and Warrior working together or joining?

  It gets very Dragonlance very quick. You guys ever read those books? The constellations disappear from the sky when the gods are active in a way similar to how the TES constellations work.

  the Warrior's Very Aspect will Change according to the Times. If, for Example, His Lady is being threatened the Warrior will seem as if he is looking to His Left, Eyes blazing towards that Part of the Sky wherein she resides. Thus, to find the Serpent during the Warrior's Season look to where he looks, for that is where the Coiled Beast is active.

  Maybe during such times when The Missing God and The Dragon God are united something special happens in the night sky? During the Slave Rebellion, which way was The Warrior facing?

  For the Redguards, there is not much of a distinction between what we call Akatosh and Lorkhan. Their view on that dichotomy is more indivisible, with Satakal being both creator and destroyer.

  "To deny that the world must end is to deny that it began."
  "Satakal is the making and the unmaking, the birth and the death, love and fear."
  "For the world is the egg that Satakal laid, and the egg that in time Satakal shall eat."
  "To know Satakal, consider a river. As a snake sheds its skin and lives on, so a river sheds its water into the sea, yet is reborn at the source."
  "To be the Worldskin is to be everything, and to be everything is to be nothing."
  "Fear not the unbelievers, for believer and unbeliever alike shall be eaten by the Serpent God."
  "Does not the serpent made of sky above reflect the serpent made of sea below? Yea, it is so." Knowing Satakal

  We can see both Aka and Lork here and it is no surprise to those of us who see Lorkhan and Akatosh and parts of a whole and TLD as both Dragonborn and Shezarrine. That would be the real union of the two - shit gets done when they're together.

  So I guess the question boils down to whether you think Pelinal was Dragonborn as well as Shezarrine.

  Edit: Dammit, Lis. Now I am confused as fuck and chasing a question there is no answer to.

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  February 4, 2016

  So I guess the question boils down to whether you think Pelinal was Dragonborn as well as Shezarrine?

  And you? Do you think so?

  So I guess the question boils down to whether you think Pelinal was Dragonborn as well as Shezarrine?

  And you? Do you think so?

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  February 4, 2016

  I regret writing that last sentence. It is not the conclusion I hoped/intended and it doesn't address the issue if you answer it, just opens up more questions.

  Pelinal failed, but like all Shezarrines there is a purpose to the failure:

  On the Void Ghost:

  He never really makes sense, does he? I mean, he shows up and says "yo, fucker, I ain't here."

  Who do you think is still filling in the margins?

  He ran.

  Ran from a book he hadn't finished, and he feels bad for that. Because they keep seeing him in the empty parts. THAT is when he shows up. He's not an editor, he's the writer that bounced and left notes behind. And when you can't follow the map, he has to Right Reach backwards to help you. And every time, you've either spooked him, or surprised him, or figured out a hole.

  To make it short, he's the one that failed so you might not.

  But his ghost? That's his doom. A ghost's work is never done. That's the definition of ghost. Until the task is accomplished. The best and worst part of him. Heart of Lorkhan? He's tied to here no matter if you banished it or not. Every night you look at him. Shattered. You make a mod on his body. Of course he's going to help you until you make the jump he can't/won't do on his own. That's the Void Ghost.

  It will be addressed. There is one that will do it. WRONG - There is a we that will do it. Takes more than one. MK IRC Q&A

  The question I cannot answer, the one Lissette has unleashed me on, is what are the stars doing if looked at from a non-Yokudan cultural lens? The Redguards see a Serpent threatening and it makes perfect sense in their culture. But what do the Nords see? Shor is not the big bad in their culture but they associate Ysmir with the Warrior.

  Perhaps the Serpent is still the big bad in Nordic culture and represents Alduin? That would be...unsatisfying.

  I regret writing that last sentence. It is not the conclusion I hoped/intended and it doesn't address the issue if you answer it, just opens up more questions.

  Pelinal failed, but like all Shezarrines there is a purpose to the failure:

  On the Void Ghost:

  He never really makes sense, does he? I mean, he shows up and says "yo, fucker, I ain't here."

  Who do you think is still filling in the margins?

  He ran.

  Ran from a book he hadn't finished, and he feels bad for that. Because they keep seeing him in the empty parts. THAT is when he shows up. He's not an editor, he's the writer that bounced and left notes behind. And when you can't follow the map, he has to Right Reach backwards to help you. And every time, you've either spooked him, or surprised him, or figured out a hole.

  To make it short, he's the one that failed so you might not.

  But his ghost? That's his doom. A ghost's work is never done. That's the definition of ghost. Until the task is accomplished. The best and worst part of him. Heart of Lorkhan? He's tied to here no matter if you banished it or not. Every night you look at him. Shattered. You make a mod on his body. Of course he's going to help you until you make the jump he can't/won't do on his own. That's the Void Ghost.

  It will be addressed. There is one that will do it. WRONG - There is a we that will do it. Takes more than one. MK IRC Q&A

  The question I cannot answer, the one Lissette has unleashed me on, is what are the stars doing if looked at from a non-Yokudan cultural lens? The Redguards see a Serpent threatening and it makes perfect sense in their culture. But what do the Nords see? Shor is not the big bad in their culture but they associate Ysmir with the Warrior.

  Perhaps the Serpent is still the big bad in Nordic culture and represents Alduin? That would be...unsatisfying.

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  February 4, 2016

  Well, this is actually (one of) the reason(s) why I personally don't believe that TLD is a Shezzarine.

  Although Lissette's version makes sence as well. It could be either.

  Well, this is actually (one of) the reason(s) why I personally don't believe that TLD is a Shezzarine.

  Although Lissette's version makes sence as well. It could be either.

• The Long-Chapper

  

  Member
   

  February 4, 2016

  So I guess the question boils down to whether you think Pelinal was Dragonborn as well as Shezarrine.

  And again, Phil, your speculation both confirms my overall view, making me very excited, and unfortunately requires that I now shut up. I will smile though. 

  

  Well, this is actually (one of) the reason(s) why I personally don't believe that TLD is a Shezzarine.

  Oh, I am of the notion that he is that double-whammy, but that's just my opinion. 

  So I guess the question boils down to whether you think Pelinal was Dragonborn as well as Shezarrine.

  And again, Phil, your speculation both confirms my overall view, making me very excited, and unfortunately requires that I now shut up. I will smile though. 

  

  Well, this is actually (one of) the reason(s) why I personally don't believe that TLD is a Shezzarine.

  Oh, I am of the notion that he is that double-whammy, but that's just my opinion. 

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  February 4, 2016

  As I said, it can be either, depends on the side you look at it from.

  As I said, it can be either, depends on the side you look at it from.

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  Member
   

  February 5, 2016

  The Yokudan Sep seems a lot more Sithian than it does Lorkhanian to me.

  The Yokudan Sep seems a lot more Sithian than it does Lorkhanian to me.

• Exuro

  

  Member
   

  February 6, 2016

  Every time I write the word Apocrypha, I chuckle. It amuses me that Bethesda essentially named the Realm of Knowledge Lore-breaking.
  Apocrypha:
  1. (initial capital letter) a group of 14 books, not considered canonical, included in the Septuagint and the Vulgate as part of the Old Testament, but usually omitted from Protestant editions of the Bible.
  2. various religious writings of uncertain origin regarded by some as inspired, but rejected by most authorities.
  3. writings, statements, etc., of doubtful authorship or authenticity.

  Every time I write the word Apocrypha, I chuckle. It amuses me that Bethesda essentially named the Realm of Knowledge Lore-breaking.
  Apocrypha:
  1. (initial capital letter) a group of 14 books, not considered canonical, included in the Septuagint and the Vulgate as part of the Old Testament, but usually omitted from Protestant editions of the Bible.
  2. various religious writings of uncertain origin regarded by some as inspired, but rejected by most authorities.
  3. writings, statements, etc., of doubtful authorship or authenticity.

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  February 6, 2016

  The Inevitable Knower doesn't believe in coincidences. I state it! It is a thing that is known.

  AE HERMA MORA ALTADOON PADHOME LKHAN AE AI

  Hermaeus Mora, elder than Ada, Abyssal Cephaliarch, hearken to the plea of this unworthy, for I come to barter for knowledge denied. That which I seek is named on this parchment, which I consume in your honor, O Demon of Knowledge. For my desire to know is beyond reckoning, and in recompense, whatever price is named shall be met.

  The Inevitable Knower doesn't believe in coincidences. I state it! It is a thing that is known.

  AE HERMA MORA ALTADOON PADHOME LKHAN AE AI

  Hermaeus Mora, elder than Ada, Abyssal Cephaliarch, hearken to the plea of this unworthy, for I come to barter for knowledge denied. That which I seek is named on this parchment, which I consume in your honor, O Demon of Knowledge. For my desire to know is beyond reckoning, and in recompense, whatever price is named shall be met.

• Karver the Lorc

  

  Member
   

  February 8, 2016

  So, me and Phil had a dispute about Trinimac some time ago, more precisly what he means to Orsinium Orcs. Phil says that he is a god of war for them, yet I say that he is god of Unity and new beginning for them.

  There is something High Priestess of Trinimac say in ESO and that is that Trinimac stands for Strength, Unity and Honor. But because it´s kind of different Trinimac than the Aldmeri one, it´s basically a completely new religion, so there can be more than one interpretation to it.

  I would like you to take a look at this sentence, my interpretation what Trinimac´s Cult stands for:

  Strength in Unity. Unity in Honor. Honor in Truth.

  What do you think it means?

  And as I said, there can be more than one interpretation. Look at the sentence and try to change the order of those words. For example:

  Unity in Truth. Truth in Strength. Strength in Honor.

  See that? Changing the order and you have completely different religion, only because of different interpretation of same three words.

  So, me and Phil had a dispute about Trinimac some time ago, more precisly what he means to Orsinium Orcs. Phil says that he is a god of war for them, yet I say that he is god of Unity and new beginning for them.

  There is something High Priestess of Trinimac say in ESO and that is that Trinimac stands for Strength, Unity and Honor. But because it´s kind of different Trinimac than the Aldmeri one, it´s basically a completely new religion, so there can be more than one interpretation to it.

  I would like you to take a look at this sentence, my interpretation what Trinimac´s Cult stands for:

  Strength in Unity. Unity in Honor. Honor in Truth.

  What do you think it means?

  And as I said, there can be more than one interpretation. Look at the sentence and try to change the order of those words. For example:

  Unity in Truth. Truth in Strength. Strength in Honor.

  See that? Changing the order and you have completely different religion, only because of different interpretation of same three words.