Forums » Elder Scrolls

Long live the Dragonborn?

    • 1595 posts
    September 17, 2014 2:48 AM EDT

    I agree with Boro. The Staff of Sheogorath is an interesting weapon because it represents that very idea. Without giving the console players access to the cc, the game allows the gamer to feel like a god by giving her a daily power to control weather in her realm, an ability to teleport back to her palace if health falls low and, best of all, a staff that controls time.

    • 47 posts
    September 17, 2014 5:41 AM EDT

    Hmm for some reason the comment chain ends with Phil.. Also since we were talking about Miraak and how he could live so long... I have always wondered why I could not join Miraak as elder and younger Dragonborn and rule the world lol. Can you imagine doing the Dawnguard quest line with Miraak? I would love to fight along side him against Harkon.

    • 1595 posts
    September 17, 2014 6:49 AM EDT

    To do this thread a service and get back onto it's original topic, I am a proponent of the theory that Dragonborn = Dragon Blooded. That is to say I think the blessing which allows a Dragonborn Emperor to wear The Amulet of Kings is the same as the one which allows the Dragonborn to shout etc.

    So by that reasoning all we need do is look at the lifespans of previous emperors to get an answer.

    • 1217 posts
    September 17, 2014 10:06 AM EDT
    That's been suggested, and makes sense at face value, but a later point was brought up: how many emperors actually absorbed dragon souls? The game has already opened the door to the possibility that they can be used for more than learning shouts.
    • 1595 posts
    September 17, 2014 10:29 AM EDT

    Here's the thing: One can know they are Dragonborn because of two abilities, one being able to wear AoK, the other absorbing the soul of a dragon. Your character can go through a huge portion of the game and never realise they're Dragonborn until they absorb their first soul.

    So an emperor doesn't need to absorb a dragon's soul - indeed they couldn't because dragons were so few - to know he/she was Dragonborn as wearing the amulet is enough proof.

    I like the idea that the souls could also do other things as seen by Miraak's use of them. I like think we can see other uses of souls through Martin's actions in TES Oblivion. Unleashing all those Dragonborn souls at once did something pretty special.

    • 1217 posts
    September 17, 2014 10:36 AM EDT
    I brought up the soul absorbing only in reference to the question of longevity, not disputing that the emperors were Dragonborn. They can stand as evidence that a dragonborn won't necessarily live a longer life just by being dragonborn, but they can't give any insight on whether or not absorbing souls can extend life, having absorbed no souls that we know of.
    • 1217 posts
    September 17, 2014 10:39 AM EDT
    That also raises the question: is a Dragonborn soul different from a dragon's? Does it take an AoK to do what Martin did, or could TLD do it, too?
    • 32 posts
    September 17, 2014 10:45 AM EDT

    I'm quite curious as to how Miraak learned the knowledge of how to harness those souls to his advantage. As I said before, Mora could have possibly hinted at some information about Dragon Souls and their uses. Also about longevity... But we don't really have any evidence to back up the statement, so I guess I'll just have to imagine that's how it all played out.

    About the Emperor theory, that's true. We don't know how many souls some of the previous Dragonborn's absorbed, if in fact they even did absorb any. Since Dragons were so sparse back then. So I suppose we can't exactly rule out the theory of dragon souls = Long life just because some past Dragonborn's didn't live for hundreds of years. So until we have some definite facts to back any of this up, I suppose we can only keep guessing. 

    • 1595 posts
    September 17, 2014 10:45 AM EDT

    Ah, I see.

    • 32 posts
    September 17, 2014 10:50 AM EDT

    I would say the Dragonborn's soul is a much less concentrated soul if you get what I mean. Not as pure as a dragons in a sense. Well, that's my take on it.

    Would a human body be even able to handle such a powerful soul, if in fact the Dragonborn has a much less potent version?

    Gosh, I sound like I'm talking about food concentration or something.

    • 1595 posts
    September 17, 2014 10:53 AM EDT

    My initial thought is that the Dragonborn is a mortal with the soul of a Dragon. Which dragon? Probably an aspect of Akatosh seeing as he's likely a Shezarrine. Absorbing dragon souls to learn shouts is interesting, seeing as how the Thu'um is a lower rung on the very tall ladder of Tonal magic. So in that respect amazing things can be done using thu'um and probably outside the abilities of mortals without the quick learning ability of a Dragonborn.

    • 1217 posts
    September 17, 2014 10:57 AM EDT

    Heh. I'd say the vessel makes no difference, but Valerica has a line to the effect of "A dragon's soul is as hardy as it's owner's scaly hide," so that might come into play somehow. The Dragonborn is essentially a dragon killer, in many ways more powerful than the dragons themselves. If anything, I'd attribute them a more potent soul, rather than a less potent one.

    • 1595 posts
    September 17, 2014 11:13 AM EDT

    Maybe he learned that ability in the same way he learned Bend Will -  directly from Hermaeus.  The word wall in Apocyrypha for Dragon Aspect also shows Old Hermy has other shouts not known by the Greybeards.

    You're right about the longevity thing. I'd prefer to think that time passes differently in Oblivion as discussed because we need to do less reaching, having proof of sorts to back it. One example we could assert to refute the idea of a long-lived Dragonborn is Reman Cyrodiil. We know the Dragonguard were hunting and killing dragons after his reign and we know they had their own version of the thu'm in the form of kai.

    Seeing as how they came to Tamriel looking for a Dragonborn and had extensive dragon lore, it's not too much of a stretch to assume they'd know what a Dragonborn could do. Maybe the fact that Reman didn't go looking for dragons to slay and souls to eat to increase his lifespan tells us something?

    • 1217 posts
    September 17, 2014 11:21 AM EDT
    Definitely possible. I'm personally hesitant to credit full knowledge about anything to the mortal races of Tamriel at this point, though, just because they haven't progressed technologically in thousands of years. That's a personal bias, to be clear.
    • 1595 posts
    September 17, 2014 12:04 PM EDT

    Very wise Boro, I was simply using that as an example that we don't need to stretch as far to potentially refute the possibility of a Dragonborn having a longer lifespan than we do in order to assert it.

    Having said all that, the fun is in the speculation, not the answer. So with that in mind I'll try and speculate on how a Dragonborn could have a longer life. 

  • September 17, 2014 3:39 PM EDT
    The Dragonborn's advantage is mastery over the Voice. That's a pretty massive advantage.
    • 1217 posts
    September 18, 2014 9:44 PM EDT

    The additional fact that Miraak, for whatever exact reason, needs the Dragonborn's soul, rather than just another dragon's, to escape Apocrypha suggests that a Dragonborn's soul has other qualities that might make it more "valuable" than a dragon's soul. 

    • 47 posts
    September 20, 2014 1:58 AM EDT

    Hey Phil. Dragons are technically Immortal right? So is it possible that when a dragonborn absorbs a dragons soul the dragonborn also absorbs some of that dragon's immortality increasing his/her lifespan?

    • 47 posts
    September 20, 2014 2:02 AM EDT

    hmm.. If Miraak needed the dragonborns soul to escape would it have been possible for the dragonborn to give Miraak some of his stored souls in order to help him escape? For example, Lets say the dragonborn has 100 dragonsouls stored within his soul... could he say... give Miraak 50 of those souls in order to help him escape? Sort of how the greybeards would give the dragonborn their "Knowledge" in order for him to learn certain shouts.

    • 1595 posts
    September 20, 2014 4:03 PM EDT

    Nice, Wulf  - you're getting into deep territory here and I like it!

    Dragons are, for want of a better word, "fragments" of Aka who is time. The idea that Dovahkiin is absorbing these "souls" does lend a great weight to your argument.