Forums » The Lounge

• Shimazu

  

  • 209 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 8:38 AM EDT

  The reason Mod based builds are perceived to do very poorly is the fact that they get bashed by every console player on the site at the moment of posting.

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 8:48 AM EDT

  My opinion is this: If I can't enjoy playing it, why should I hit the like button? The same goes for builds of a specific playstyle that I do not enjoy playing... It is not really a dislike of mods, but I cannot play it on PC so I cannot enjoy it.
• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 8:56 AM EDT

  Yeah. But as long as it is well presented, well written and seems like a good working and good looking build, it would get a like? And as long as the general vibe would be like that, then I'm fine if those "mod builds" does not get likes. But as long as Console players bash at these builds for the sake of bashing, and not looking at the build for what it is, then it is hard to actually post any of those builds. It's not enjoyable to develop or share ones idea if you know it is going to get bashed for the wrong reasons.

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 8:57 AM EDT

  Yeah, and I completely understand that. But hey, at least you hopefully gave the build a look if it sounded cool enough. You do not have to click the like button if you do not want to.

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 8:59 AM EDT

  Yeah. So much for trying to share ones ideas and try to inspire others... =(

• Morta

  

  • 33 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:02 AM EDT

  You wrote "Just understand the other 80% of us dont really give a damn." on the video that Bryn posted a while ago. You clearly stated that you don't give a dammn about mods. We get it. But then, your first post on this discussion contained these lines:"I don't give a damn if you aren't able to use mods, I am going to flaunt it anyway" therefore, you DO in fact think that we are just here to show off with mod-based builds and videos, and you wrote that mod-based builds are an insult to console gamers. I just want to ask one question. If you really don't care about mods, why do you think that we only post stuff about mods to flaunt it? What if we do it to share it with other people who enjoy mods? We just wanted to have our fun, we wanted to give it a shot. Like Tompa said, if it doesn't work, we are fine with it. Problem is, like Ponty said, that console players were continuously complaining because the build was based on a mod. If it doesn't interest you, then don't read it! We are fine with that, but don't start bashing it just because you bought the game on a different platform and you can't mod it. That's like reading a build that is based on multiple items from the Dragonborn DLC, and then commenting "I don't have the Dragonborn DLC so this build is bad and it should be deleted." And don't come up with "DLC items can be substituted" because how the heck am I going to substite an oil spider for example?

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:15 AM EDT

  I wanted to, but I never saw it :(
• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:16 AM EDT

  Morta... Calm down... Peace... Woo sah
• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:18 AM EDT

  I was talking about a hypothetical build :P

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:19 AM EDT

  Haha yeah, woo sah! :D I'm all fired up too because I wanted this discussion. But yeah, we don't have to go all aggressive ;)

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:19 AM EDT

  I always thought a good way to do it is to make a build everyone can enjoy, and then have a section talking about mods that would help the build. Really, that's all you really need.
• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:20 AM EDT

  I was talking about the pirate prince :P :(
• Dr. Tonal Architect, Ph.D

  

  • 14 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:21 AM EDT

  Thank you so much for this thread, Tompa. One thing I definitely realized about this site is that it's quite the hub for the opinionated. I personally play on the PC and I cannot play Skyrim without mods. I use Skyre, just to have more perks to increase my characters' potentials. I love some of the builds presented on this site, but it would be really nice to have a build that put forth the same effort with these builds except with Skyre incorporated. That build the sir posted was written poorly, but most of his comments were not focused on that. All I read was: "I can't play it so this is bad." My goodness, so PC mod players cannot have 1 build catered to them? So when console players whine about something they can't use, we must suffer? Very unbiased -_-. I'm not trying to be confrontational, but the build was clearly NOT intended for console players. So why were there any even commenting on it? I agree, if one can't play it, then the like can be reserved. But to take time to post about how the PC player population is minuscule, so the build is null and "I play console so this mod build is stupid" is seriously outrageous. Just because mod player are in the minority does not mean console player have any given right to shut them out.
• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:24 AM EDT

  Yeah, that is one way to do it. But, to take one example of a build I have in my head, but I haven't fully developed: A blood mage. There are builds that does something similar of a blood mage, but SkyRe really adds Blood Magic, where you use 75% of the mana cost as health instead. This would be hard to do if the build is based on this, which most of those builds probably will be.

  I would go the length of researching ways to do the build in a Vanilla way, instead. 

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:25 AM EDT

  Hey! It is not console gamers vs PC gamers... It is Xbox vs PS vs PC... We all hate each other equally :P
• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:29 AM EDT

  Sorry to say, not liking is equally bad cause then the build stays low and risks deletion... So really, there is no possible way out of it
• Dr. Tonal Architect, Ph.D

  

  • 14 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:29 AM EDT

  So this build group is for console players and will only cater to and be governed by console players?
• Dr. Tonal Architect, Ph.D

  

  • 14 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:30 AM EDT

  Haha I actually love Xbox xD But not for Skyrim!
• Vazgen

  

  • 1483 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:32 AM EDT

  I'd like to throw in my opinion as well. I'm a PC user and use a lot of mods. I, however, don't use mods that alter the gameplay like Skyrim Redone. It's a great mod and many people on PC use it, as it allows more realistic and balanced gameplay. But there are also PC people, like myself, who don't like changing the gameplay from vanilla. Anyway, if the build is based on such an overhaul mod, the description of terms, perks etc. will be different from what the majority is familiar with. That means that no matter how well the build is presented the reader will not be able to understand the specifics and beauty of it without experiencing the mod. That results in few likes, which brings to Deathmatch and subsequent deletion of the build (in most cases, I haven't seen a mod-based build survive, though, to be honest, there were none with great presentation). The build based on such an overhaul mod should have such a great presentation for people to like it without understanding what it is about, to accumulate a decent number of likes, otherwise Ben's mentioned "14% rule" kicks in.

  Edit: to clarify, under presentation I include lore and character backstory.

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:32 AM EDT

  Thank you for your opinion!

  Indeed that particular build was a poor example of a well written build, which in the end led to its demise. And that is exactly what should be talked about in the comments of any build, and solely that. That is why I created this in the forums instead, for all of us, in this community, to shed light around it. 

  As you say, we, the PC and mod players, are part of this community, even if some might not like it. I just want that even these kinds of builds are given the same treatment and chance of creating and sharing Character Builds, for the right reasons.

  For me, the right reasons for a build to stay on this site and go through the Bloodworks is because it is a Character Build that is appealing, in Gameplay, in Lore and in Character background. Secondary reasons would be that the standards of grammar and presentation should be at a certain level.

  Three out of four of these points doesn't matter when it comes which platform it is played on or how the gameplay itself works. And all of those reasons should be accounted for before making a comment on how good the build is. 

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:33 AM EDT

  Things tend to cater to najority. If the majority of the people here were on PC, than the same would happen to console friendly builds (and you cannot say that wouldn't happen... Majority leads to a sense of superiority everytime)
• Dr. Tonal Architect, Ph.D

  

  • 14 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:35 AM EDT

  True, but Ponty made a tag for PC mod players, so once that good build come along, we can find it, and possibly rescue it from deletion. It's just that, people are quick to bash instead of leaving alone or giving something a chance.
• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:36 AM EDT

  I do too love the Xbox. I never really understood this platform war. I own a Xbox360, a good PC and I'm thinking of getting the PS4 for next gen. So, yeah :D

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:41 AM EDT

  Exactly. If a build is good enough to go through a Deathmatch, it is because it was made with a good enough presentation for the judges (us voters) to see the good in the build, even if they couldn't play it.

  If I, after all this, would make such a build, that is what I would strive for. To make the build understandable, even for those who couldn't play it. Then it would be up to everyone to decide if the build is good enough or not, for what it is; A character build. Not a mod presentation...

• asgard

  

  • 19 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:41 AM EDT

  Perhaps that is not a fault with PC-only builds, but the deathmatch system itself. If mod-fans really do comprise only 14% of the group's population, then is it fair to throw PC-only builds into the arena together with regular builds?