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Dragon Age Lore - General Discussion

  • Member
    October 15, 2018

    If anything it's an over simplification, but at it's core it is another tool which has it's pros and cons. Magic is more dangerous then a sword or other weapon because it provides the mage with a permanent link to the fade through which demons have an easier time possessing them as opposed to your average non-mage. Blood magic increases this risk because it can involve directly working with a demon either through binding the demon or learning from it. 

    Spirits/Demons are one in the same and much like the Fade will reflect the mind of the person interacting with it. So any spirit/demon you encounter would be ewwww :P

    Edit: I would love to continue this discussion but for now I must sleep, I look forward to reading any responses once I wake up.

  • October 15, 2018

    Golden Fool said:

    Spirits/Demons are one in the same and much like the Fade will reflect the mind of the person interacting with it. So any spirit/demon you encounter would be ewwww :P

    Yes, definitely. Unless you are Solas, of course. Idk, the idea that something can mess with your mind is rather repulsive, at least to me.

  • October 16, 2018

    As for actual serious real lore; inspired by a recent discussion about necromancy, how about Blood Magic and whether it on its own is evil or whether it is the people who use it?

    So this is tough for me...the trouble is that the overwhelming majority of Blood Mages we're presented with (either historically or in-game) are either evil, or at least incredibly willing to commit evil acts (or Jowan). Sure there are a few like Merill who are arguably 'good' but at the same time all of the Blood Mages we're shown are more capable than normal Mages (as far as we're aware) to either become Abominations, or do incredible evil. From what we see, we're kind of given the impression that, even if Blood Magic isn't evil in nature, it's incredibly corrupting. While we could say that all Magic is corrupting (and it is) there does seem to be a part of Blood Magic that is, more sinister than normal magic and much more capable of turning evil. I mean we just need to examine the Fereldan and Kirkwall Circles, throw in the Grey Wardens from Inquisition and you have a pretty good showing of the worst of Blood Magic. I mean to an extent you can definitely understand the motives behind the three parties (and the Warden's and at least Kirkwall Circle Members weren't exactly evil...just heavily misguided into commiting evil).

    I think my final answer would be that Blood Magic isn't evil itself, but there's something deeper to it...I wouldn't be surprised to learn that part of what makes it possible has something a bit more demonic (as in actually involving Demons in a similar way a Spirit Healer communes with Spirits) going for it. There's something about Blood Magic that I think corrupts people, and in more than a 'Power Corrupts' sort of way. It's just strange that we see so few 'Normal Mages' truly being evil, and it could be a story thing (Blood Magic sounds more evil and it is a really great way to spur Templar/Mage hate) but...yeah.

  • October 16, 2018

    You just summarised all what I think on this matter (though I wouldn't call Merrill good). Though this bring us to the question as to whether demons are evil. And as strange as it may seem, I think the answer is no. Because to be good or evil one must be able to choose between the two. Spirits and demons don't have this choice, they are just what they are. So I would call demons dangerous raather than evil.

  • Member
    October 16, 2018

    I get the feeling that most Blood Mages are evil because they are the type of people who are drawn to this type of magic, or at the very least are more willing to see it as an option.

    While we could say that all Magic is corrupting (and it is) there does seem to be a part of Blood Magic that is, more sinister than normal magic and much more capable of turning evil.

    Magic itself is not corrupting, it is the easy access to the fade and more importantly demons that is corrupting. In addition Blood Magic would be more corrupting becuase of that demon involvement.

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    So I would call demons dangerous raather than evil.

    Which brings us back to Solas, who instead of describing Spirts and Demons as benevolent and malevolent he uses non-aggressive and aggressive. He also claims that the version you get being the version you expect from them.

    More evidence to support demons not being evil is Mouse, who despite appearing as a Pride Demon, it lets you go instead of trying to possess you.

     

  • October 16, 2018

    I get the feeling that most Blood Mages are evil because they are the type of people who are drawn to this type of magic, or at the very least are more willing to see it as an option.

    Well, it's hard to say. Personally I think most normal Blood Mages (less evil ones) are just killed too quickly by Templars (or Demons) to really be shown off that well. Generally when we see them in-game they tend to be rather powerful Mages, so it's not difficult for me to believe that we just don't have a good pool to fish from (so to say). 

    Magic itself is not corrupting, it is the easy access to the fade and more importantly demons that is corrupting. In addition Blood Magic would be more corrupting becuase of that demon involvement.

    I was simplifying slightly, though I'd argue that more what I meant is having that much power is corrupting. Compared to a normal person, a Mage is theoretically rather powerful in Dragon Age, even without Blood Magic. 

    Which brings us back to Solas, who instead of describing Spirts and Demons as benevolent and malevolent he uses non-aggressive and aggressive. He also claims that the version you get being the version you expect from them.

    More evidence to support demons not being evil is Mouse, who despite appearing as a Pride Demon, it lets you go instead of trying to possess you.

    I don't talk to Solas (never liked him, he just seems shifty from the start) so I'll take your word here. I would definitely agree with the aggressive/non-aggressive stance, it feels more accurate especially when we look at Justice (who is quite obviously Aggressive in DA:2, pretty much at all times), and of course the fact that Demons are perfectly willing to negotiate, though to be fair that's usually when they're overpowered or want something out of it...But I think generally they have more potential for 'evil' than we see.

    But, essentially, even if Demons are aggressive I wouldn't be able to really call them evil. Even the Demons that are the most aggressive seem to be rather limited to their 'nature', to the extent that I'm not entirely sure how much free will they have. Nothing to back that up really, just a feeling I get based on how locked in Demons seem to be to their Concept.

  • October 16, 2018

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    I get the feeling that most Blood Mages are evil because they are the type of people who are drawn to this type of magic, or at the very least are more willing to see it as an option.

    Well, it's hard to say. Personally I think most normal Blood Mages (less evil ones) are just killed too quickly by Templars (or Demons) to really be shown off that well. Generally when we see them in-game they tend to be rather powerful Mages, so it's not difficult for me to believe that we just don't have a good pool to fish from (so to say).

    I wouldn't call Merrill and Jowan evil. Or even Avernus. One can use Blood magic out of ignorance, desperation or even for what they believe to be the greater good. It doesn't really make them evil even if their actions result in disaster.

    Solas is a weird fellow, I suspect that he isn't entirely sane. But he does have a point.

    As for Mouse, maybe they promised him something more appealing than a fledgling mage. Or threatened him somehow. On the other hand it doesn't make sense, because it sort of defeats the whole purpose of the Harrowing.

  • Member
    October 16, 2018

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    As for Mouse, maybe they promised him something more appealing than a fledgling mage. Or threatened him somehow. On the other hand it doesn't make sense, because it sort of defeats the whole purpose of the Harrowing.

    In the trivia for his wiki page, someone has pointed out that in light of Solas' comments Mouse might actually be a spirit of wisdom who is appearing as a pride demon because both the player and their character are expecting to find some demon. Also the point of the Harrowing is to get the apprentice to acknowledge both the dangers of the fade and their own pride; hence the Pride Demon, and by doing so demonstrate that they can resist the temptations of a demon.

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    Solas is a weird fellow, I suspect that he isn't entirely sane. But he does have a point.

    If you haven't finished Inquisition and the dlc ignore this part, he is from the time before the fade was seperate throm Thedas so that probably plays into it.

     

  • October 16, 2018

    Golden Fool said:

    If you haven't finished Inquisition and the dlc ignore this part, he is from the time before the fade was seperate throm Thedas so that probably plays into it.

    Oh, I have finished all the DLCs. But that doesn't make him saner in my eyes. The world is not the same as it was back then and one should be a real maniac to just disregard that fact.

    Golden Fool said:

    In the trivia for his wiki page, someone has pointed out that in light of Solas' comments Mouse might actually be a spirit of wisdom who is appearing as a pride demon because both the player and their character are expecting to find some demon. Also the point of the Harrowing is to get the apprentice to acknowledge both the dangers of the fade and their own pride; hence the Pride Demon, and by doing so demonstrate that they can resist the temptations of a demon.

     

    A cool theory. Too bad we'll never know for sure.

  • October 16, 2018

    I wouldn't call Merrill and Jowan evil. Or even Avernus. One can use Blood magic out of ignorance, desperation or even for what they believe to be the greater good. It doesn't really make them evil even if their actions result in disaster.

    True, and they're the...best? Some of the better Blood Mages that we know about, (and of course possibly Hawke/Grey Warden) but they're certainly in the minority.