Forums » Elder Scrolls

• Asks-Many-Questions

  

  • 278 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 2:53 PM EST

  A lot of people see werewolves as something inherently negative, so anybody who fights them is seen as automatically more positive than they otherwise would be.

  My opinion is that the game makes it pretty clear that the Silver Hand are essentially common bandits who just happen to have it out for werewolves specifically, and that their methods in hunting werewolves go far beyond putting down dangerous animals. (There's a lot of tortured werewolf corpses in their hideouts)

  There could have been potential for a grey/gray moral situation where you decide between helping generally good werewolves who are still prone to violence and bloodlust, or assisting the hunters who are tracking deadly inhuman animals but have let their work turn them into violent killers...but the game fails to deliver on that. The Silver Hand, as portrayed in-game, are 100% villains.

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  • 641 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 2:55 PM EST

  It's easy to assume the reason Ulfric didn't get anywhere with his original push for independence is because the majority do not want it. It just really bugs me how everybody seems to think Nord=Stormcloak & Imperial=Empire and it's never been like that. It's always been about pro-union Nords Vs Pro-independence Nords.

• Asks-Many-Questions

  

  • 278 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 2:57 PM EST

  The Companions aren't normal werewolves, though. I thought the implication was that their version of lycanthropy was much more controlled...or that the Companions were just strong-willed enough to rein in the beast. (Vilkas mentions to Kodlak having trouble with bloodlust)

  The average werewolf (Sinding included) does truly seem to be suffering from out-of-control transformations.

• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 2:58 PM EST

  It's not that simple, Shaun, and is, as you put it, an assumption. A best guess is a guess no matter how best it is. Maybe the Jarls were pro-union when Torygg was chosen. Maybe they were already planning to rebel. There's no knowing for sure.

• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:04 PM EST

  That's my point, the Companions are the exception.

  Lycanthropy, like vampirism, is a disease. So your options are to find a cure, or destroy the carriers. The Silver Hand opt for the latter. For all we know, they're like a dark reflection of the Dawnguard, who lost family or friends to werewolves. It seems random to become a bandit who just so happens to hunt werewolves.

  I don't let Sinding off the hook because he's clearly got enough presence of mind to stop and plead with the PC during the Blood Moon, which casts doubt on just how much he can resist his instincts.

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  • 641 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:05 PM EST

  What is know though is that at the start of the game just over half the Jarls side with the empire.

• Asks-Many-Questions

  

  • 278 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:08 PM EST

  And half side with the Stormcloaks. What's your point? This isn't a democracy; they're not going to put independence on the ballot as Proposition Blue.

• Vaaljørn

  

  • 92 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:09 PM EST

  I always get the ring, then run back inside and skin his hide! 

• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:12 PM EST

  You also have to bear in mind that it is suggested that his moot wasn't just yesterday, and the Civil War doesn't happen immediately after it. There's time between Torygg's appointment and murder for opinions to change, particularly if the Thalmor start stepping up their game.

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  • 641 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:12 PM EST

  So what if it's not? It's a damn site more compelling reason that Skyrim should stay with the empire.

• Asks-Many-Questions

  

  • 278 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:15 PM EST

  "Half agree with me, and half agree with you, so MY side is obviously right" is not a compelling reason.

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  • 641 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:21 PM EST

  More than half of the country do not side with Ulfric and his warmongering so why should he get to rule? Who exactly said he was right?

• Asks-Many-Questions

  

  • 278 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:30 PM EST

  No, five out of nine people sided with the Empire. The jarls made the decision and their holds had to go along. There wasn't a census, "Do you support Independence from the Empire?"

  WE DON'T KNOW which side is more "popular" in Skyrim; the game makes it generally seem like both sides have roughly equal support. You are wrong. Wrong! Your belief that the Imperial position has more support in Skyrim is false, and you have no evidence to back it up other than faulty logic and made-up scenarios.

  Not to mention that being more popular doesn't make a position correct. 99% of the country could support the Empire, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

  Ulfric believes his cause is the right one, and I believe that the evidence from the game world is sufficient for me to support the Stormcloaks. If you believe differently, that's fine, but I won't stand here and have people peddle fanfiction as if it's actual lore.

• SoulLess

  

  • 207 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:35 PM EST

  Racist: No and my opinion won't change on this one. The Argonians live outside cause they have an uneasy past with the Dark Elves. Also, I never heard him say or saw him do anything racist.

  Power Hungry: Because he killed the old high king when it wasn't necessary? Well maybe. Dunno. But my mind is open on this one.

  Egomaniac: Well i don't know why he should be one, but if someone can explain me why he is a egomaniac i might change my opinion.

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  • 641 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 3:55 PM EST

  So we are back to what I said at the beginning of all this. The majority of the leadership in Skyrim support the empire. That is 100% fact no matter how much you or Ulfric think it's wrong.

• Asks-Many-Questions

  

  • 278 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 4:01 PM EST

  Technically, yeah. But 5/9 is only 55%. It may be a majority, but it's hardly overwhelming. And you have been implying that because the "majority" support the Empire, that's the right choice to make. I disagree.

• SoulLess

  

  • 207 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 4:09 PM EST

  Well for the Forsworn i feel really sorry, especially for the guy, who tells how his daughter was killed before his eyes. :(

• SoulLess

  

  • 207 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 4:21 PM EST

  A magical ward? I mean he had a court wizard right? They usually sell this tome.

• Deleted Member

  
   

  November 4, 2014 5:51 PM EST

  ...speak for yourself. I want my heroes to be real about things.

• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 5:53 PM EST

  What are you even referring to?
• Deleted Member

  
   

  November 4, 2014 5:54 PM EST

  You say those things like they're bad. That's survival, son!

• Deleted Member

  
   

  November 4, 2014 5:58 PM EST

  Racism. If my hero was, I'd want him to speak his mind, so we'd know who they really are instead of fake smiles and empty words. 

  I'm just saying, accept people for who they are goes both ways. If a hero is racist, let him do his thing, because who are we to criticise the man who just did something heroic when we did not?

• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 6:15 PM EST

  @Shor
  "Racism. If my hero was, I'd want him to speak his mind, so we'd know who they really are instead of fake smiles and empty words.
  
  I'm just saying, accept people for who they are goes both ways. If a hero is racist, let him do his thing, because who are we to criticise the man who just did something heroic when we did not?"
  
  What does speaking one's mind have to do with anything? And "accepting people for who they are" is completely opposite to racism, which is literally a prejudice against someone for who they are. I still don't know why you're so keen on people accepting racism (seriously, you talk about it more than you do about Ulfric). The man isn't a hero, anyway. He killed a king, and either the rest of his dirty work is done by the Dragonborn, or he and his army get their shiz ripped by the Dragonborn.
• Tolveor

  

  • 55 posts
   

  November 4, 2014 6:15 PM EST

  Are you saying he is a racist powerhungry egomaniac and its a good thing he is?

• Deleted Member

  
   

  November 4, 2014 6:35 PM EST

  A timid, pushover emo kid who doesn't stand for anything is a better choice?