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• Spectre

  

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  June 9, 2014 9:51 AM EDT

  The Alessian Order boasted about it. The Order killed most of the Ayleids of Cyrodiil(this is where basically all of them lived), and the few who didn't die and escaped to Valenwood where they all assimilated and essentially faded away.
• Alduin

  

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  June 9, 2014 10:55 AM EDT

  Yeah, the fact that they don't try to change the culture is a good thing. If Elves try it the Humans would fly into rebellion. The Human Empires were the only ones to hold lands of other races without civil disorder for a longer period of time. The Elves never did this, only the Khajiit put up with them, but most of the Khajiit don't really care that much about the Dominion itself.

  The Dominion ceases to be stable once it has a lot of Humans in its lands. I wouldn't want Elves in charge either, they suck at responding quickly to changes.

  A good government would obviously be a mix, with a Human as Emperor (probably with at least a few Elven advisors), not saying this just because I prefer Humans, but in a Tamrielic Empire, Humans would make up the vast majority of the population, and Humans are still really intelligent and capable of adapting to changes really quickly.

  Also, "onto the Empire they conquered", the Dominion never really conquered anything. They weakened the Empire, but that's it, they didn't even get the land in Hammerfell.

  The only ones shown to be able to control large amounts of lands with differing races (and without civil strife) are the Imperials. It never worked out for the Elves. You also can't really blame the Alessian Empire for their extreme anti-mer views, they were enslaved by them for ages and only just gained their freedom. Understandable they wanted revenge, especially since they were in a position to get it.

• Spectre

  

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  June 9, 2014 11:14 AM EDT

  First, the only reason the Imperials kept control of the Summerset Isles was because the Numidium, and then it was stuffed full of Imperial troops after that, so...
  
  Another thing, the Elves on the Merethic era lived in peace with the early Bretons, called Manmer, the only conflict between humans and Elves came when the Atmoran settlers found the Eye of Magnus, and refused to give the Elves access.
  
  Don't try to change the culture is incorrect, for example, the Imperials forced the Altmer to accept the Human pantheon and even eventually forced the Altmer to worship Talos, the man who used the Numidium with no warning on civilians. They also essentially rid Summerset of most of the Old Elven culture, "imperialising" it.
  
  
  I also think he meant the Dominion lands, where they do have solid control.
• Spectre

  

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  June 9, 2014 11:16 AM EDT

  Also, your "without civil strife" comment makes me look towards the long list of rebellions, assassinations, and uprisings.
• Deleted Member

  
   

  June 9, 2014 11:20 AM EDT

  The Bretons were sex slaves under the Elves of High Rock...

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 11:28 AM EDT

  The Empire included Elven gods for the Elves, Human gods for the Humans (Talos mainly because of the Nords, the Imperials didn't see him as a god and didn't force the Elves to worship as such. Even so, playing Oblivion or even Morrowind and Daggerfall, Altmer there don't seem bothered by it). You can change the culture, but it wil take a looong time. Ofcourse many races' culture changed under the Empire, but it wasn't forced on them except for the Empire-wide Panteon everyone had to accept except Morrowind. Civilians of both side suffered, Humans were enslaved and killed, Elves were killed.

  The Manmer lived as lower-class citizens, and there was conflict from time to time. It's this kind of society that Humans for obvious reasons don't want, and it's the kind of society the Altmer are trying to make happen.

• Alduin

  

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  June 9, 2014 11:28 AM EDT

  By and large, over the Empire's lifespan, there was mainly peace. Civil strife every now and then in such a large Empire over such a long period of time is bound to happen.

• Alduin

  

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  June 9, 2014 11:29 AM EDT

  I hope the Elves looked better back then than they do in Skyrim..

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 11:32 AM EDT

  Source please, the only sources I've seen about them is that they were a lower class but lived in harmony with the Elves(pocket guide to the Empire vol. 1(kind of), Frontier, Conquest).
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 11:33 AM EDT

  Yes, the pocket guide does talk about slaves, but it was an assumption by the Nords at the time, and even talks about the Bretons fighting with the Elves against the Nords.
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 11:43 AM EDT

  What does UESP source? Also the Bretons never did fight them, heck when they could, they fought with the Elves! UESP says the Alessians weakened the Elves and then the Bretons took over politically, it says nothing about fighting.
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:01 PM EDT

  Although the Manmer were a lower class society, but the source on UESP for these "conflicts" says nothing about Bretons fighting, just Nords.
  
  Also let me quote Vix about the forced to worship,
  
  "Ergo worship to Talos is worship to the ideologies of Shor, and thus Lorkhan which is why the Altmer are so displeased. Likewise, this same religion that had already compromised their own gods was forced on them in the form of the 8 Divines. Thus when Talos became the 9th Divine they were forced to worship him too. There are still very very likely Altmer alive that knew Tiber Septim first hand, it's only been about 700 years. Thus they still remember the time when Talos was their cruel, vicious conqueror and humans see it as something that always was and always had been. The Altmer wish to correct this, after all, they have no problem with the 8 Divines, in fact they support this, but the worship of Talos is simply worshiping the memory of a person who's quintessential personality was to demean the accomplishments of non humans and subjugate them under his rule."
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:02 PM EDT

  Then don't say "without Civil Strife" then :P
• Alduin

  

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  June 9, 2014 12:02 PM EDT

  How do you know they never fought them? There were at least some Bretons fighting for the Alessian Order. There were at least some Bretons fighting for the Direnni. They were barely a race then, they were split up for obvious reasons. Besides, this is only a minor point. Conflict or not, they were lower class citizens looked down upon and discriminated against by Elves. That's what the Altmer would love to do against all of Men.

• Alduin

  

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  June 9, 2014 12:04 PM EDT

  I meant Civil Strife as in constant AKA what the Ayeids had.

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:06 PM EDT

  I'm never going to convince you people am I?
  
  
  I just ask you read Vix's article of the Thalmor if you haven't, and you'll see that is NOT what they're trying to do. Also, how I know they didn't fight, all of the sources speak about their coexistence and that when they could have fought the Elves, they fought WITH the Elves.
• Alduin

  

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  June 9, 2014 12:06 PM EDT

  They weren't literally forced to worship him, all they had to do was say that he was a Divine, and they don't even have to mean it. This ofcourse, required Altmer to swallow their pride for 5 seconds so they got all pissy as usual.

• Spectre

  

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  June 9, 2014 12:07 PM EDT

  Could you source these comments please? Besides UESP, it does sometimes get things incorrect.
• Alduin

  

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  June 9, 2014 12:10 PM EDT

  "Around the same time, the Alessian Order would make campaigns against the Direnni, weakening them enough for the locals to rebel against them" Bretons fought both sides, it's illogical to think otherwise. They weren't a united race.

  I read all the articles. They don't consider Humans their equals and sure as hell not fit to govern, over time they will do their best to make Humans only lower class citizens. If they manage to win in the first place (which I don't see happening).

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:11 PM EDT

  Wait, are you being serious?! If forced to call him a Divine, well I wonder what gods they worship.
  
  Swallow their pride?! Did you even read it? They were being forced to say one of their gods is a man who unleashed the Numidium on one of their peaceful cities massacring everyone there, it was a city, not a military base! They personally were alive and experienced first hand the devastation wrought by him!
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:11 PM EDT

  Source please.
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  June 9, 2014 12:14 PM EDT

  What is that source first of all, and Vix also breaks down if you want to read it again:
  
  "But that's not taking into account the Altmeri mindset. Take out the assumptions and you're left with a very simple goal in that they want to recreate the Merethic era. With what we know now, we can see that the past eras, notably the third but to a degree the first and second as well were viewed as catastrophic for all elves. Even the Tribunal was considered a decline from their earlier culture and the Chimer were essentially tribal barbarians despite their popularity (Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd edition). Thus, the Thalmor is charged with doing the best for Elvenkind as a whole. With this, they gave up the efforts of the isolationists and accommodating political figures such as Andel Crodo which led them to disaster (Pocket Guide to the Empire 1st edition). Now, they want to simply return to society to a Merethic state (Lord of Souls). It should be noted, if they go back to the actual Merethic state, it means that it would be not just a time of mer dominance, but also of mer unity, and peaceable interaction with humanity as well as what happened before the belligerent times of Ysgramor and his retinue."
• Alduin

  

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  June 9, 2014 12:17 PM EDT

  The main source is common sense and logic, the Thalmor dispise Humans, they may not want to kill them all, but they don't want them in any meaningful positions either. Not saying they'll remove all Human generals and officials, but they will slowly try and limit the number of Humans up high more and more. At the very least.

• Deleted Member

  
   

  June 9, 2014 12:17 PM EDT

  This is operating under the assumption that Talos is a lone, or conglomerate of Shezzarines, something that can not be proven, as it's just a theory (a whacked in the brain theory). 

  In the Roman Empire, of which the Imperials draw influence, they would worship the Emperors as gods, and when a new Emperor took the throne, the old cult was abandoned. That's how Cult of Talos got started.

   What the Cult of Talos is doing is mimicking the beginnings of the Aldmeri Pantheon, which evolved from basic ancestor worship, to worshiping the ancestors of the nobility.  

  "The religion of the people also changed because of this change in society: no longer did the Aldmer worship their own ancestors, but the ancestors of their "betters." Auriel, Trinimac, Syrabane, andPhynaster are among the many ancestor spirits who became Gods. A group of elders rebelled against this trend, calling themselves the Psijics, the keepers of the Old Ways of Aldmeris."-Link's Awakining

• Alduin

  

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  June 9, 2014 12:19 PM EDT

  Yeah, they want back the days of Mer dominance and the days where Humans were second hand citizens. Which is what I said. Also, are Elves really that Naïve to think that there would be peace with Elves in charge of Humans? There won't be.