Ok, is there a way to talk to the Cornered Rat without having to pickpocket? My character has a problem with theft, thieves, and assassins & murderers. He wants nothing to do with the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood(yet the only way to get at the DB, that I know, is to murder the orphanage woman).
I have to talk to Brynjolf about a man in the Ratways(the dude behind the reinforced door), but when I failed a persuade, the only option was to do the pickpocket deal. My character is a knight, he hates stealing. I don't even know if I could get my speech high enough to do this without becoming a thief.
I got my knight to 50 in speech, then finally found and bought the elixir of glibness(making his speech a total of 100). It worked :). First time I ever saw Parthanax, pretty cool :). Now, I'm wondering if killing that devil of a den-mother is the only way to destroy the DB.
It is. I've roleplayed through it before though. You go the Arventus Arentino's house because he might know something about the DB you can use to get at them and he should be stopped form performing the evil ritual if he doesn't lead you to the DB. Then he mistakes you for an assassin and you go along with it to stop him from repeating his evil ritual. Then you go to the orphanage just to see what riled him up so much, and find that the owner is such a monster you kill her anyway. Then you return to Arventus to see if a real assassin has hooked up to him, but when he gives you the reward it is clear he hasnt and you leave. Then, because your roleplaying, at some point you sleep, get kidnapped, kill Astrid and destroy the DB. It's not the best roleplay but you have to work with what you have.