Skyrim Tips and Tricks » Discussions


Debate: Marginalized Skills

Tags: #Tips and Tricks Debates 
  • Member
    June 29, 2015

    Hello Tippers and Trickers! Today we're going to be talking about marginalized skills. By marginalized skills I'm talking about skills that many people think aren't worth perking, or even a waste of time. The usual skills that I see people talking about in this regard are Speech, Lockpicking, and Pickpocket, but if you think there are others, by all means, tell us. The purpose of today's debate is to suggest and debate different ways to improve these marginalized skills so that they're more worthwhile. Alternatively, if you think that a lot of these so-called marginalized skills are actually quite good, then tell us why you think so. Now then, let's debate!

  • Member
    June 29, 2015

    Both are excellent posts that really opened my eyes to what Speech and Pickpocket can do. I was thinking about making a note of your posts myself but I knew you'd come in here and do that anyway. :P

  • June 29, 2015

    Tae and I have a build coming out that makes heavy use of speech. I can assure you all from my own personal experience that speech does so much more than just enhance your Roleplay experience.

  • Member
    June 29, 2015

    The merchant perk is absolutely fantastic - my job here is done.

    Lockpicking is easily the games most shafted skill because lockpicks are so plentiful and inexpensive and the mini game is balls easy to master after your first playthrough. The answer? Make lockpicks RARE and VERY expensive! They would have to cost about 1000 gold a pop though to re-balance the lockpicking skill and then the whole games economy would get called into question.

    Golden Touch only adds between 20-100 gold per chest and 2-10 gold per body. When you consider even some of the humblest alchemy potions can easily eclipse that number even by an unperked novice it's a wasted perk.

    The description of Treasure Hunter sounds good but in reality just increases the already existing 10% to 15% chance of getting an extra item.

    Pickpocket has some merits and some very cool perks like 'poisoner'. I also like the ability to strip a target down to their underwear but after one playthrough using these tactics it just feels unrealistic and a bit dumb. Someone here managed to put me off the Extra Pockets perk a very long time ago...

  • Member
    June 29, 2015

    In fact, I think Bethesda themselves HATE the lockpicking skill. They systematically shafted it in every game...

    In Morrowind you could get a spell to do the job for you...

    In Oblivion you could go get the Skeleton Key before you even encountered your first chest...

    And in Skyrim it's just far too easy, I can unlock a Master chest with my penis...

  • Member
    June 29, 2015

    Impact is brilliant! My destruction mage uses that a lot and bad guys hardly ever get near enough to even scratch him

  • Member
    June 29, 2015

  • Member
    June 29, 2015

    I love the speech and pickpocket trees. I seriously don't know what I would do without the Merchant perk and over this past weekend I just unlocked Perfect Touch for the first time and I'm a complete believer. 

    I actually like picking the locks, so I don't usually invest in the lockpicking tree for that reason. I enjoy the little mini puzzles and I like to keep those master locks as challenging as possible. It's more satisfying for me to make that skill legendary without having invested any perk points and without using enchanted lockpicking gear.

    Ironically, the thing I like to pickpocket the most happens to be keys. There's something about having a vast collection of NPC keys that I really like.

  • June 29, 2015

    I have no idea why the Pickpocket tree would be considered marginal. If it doesn't fit the roleplay of your character I understand, but to say that it has no utility, especially for a stealth character or a poison-centric alchemist, is just crazy talk. I always feel a little disappointed when I can't fit Pickpocketing into a character I'm using, just because after my experience creating the Magicka-Blocker, watching enemies wither away from slipping theme some amped-up Lingering Damage Health potions is just too much fun to give up.

  • Member
    June 29, 2015

    One of Ben's builds pointed out to me the "point" of Lockpicking perks: saving time. Yeah, it's possible to unlock any lock at any skill with just a few picks, but how much *real* time do you want to spend fiddling with that interface?

    That said, I do wish Lockpicking had been implemented in a more challenging/interesting way. I haven't seen any perfect (modded) solutions yet. Fallout 3's system gives you an incentive to invest in the skill (since otherwise you can't even attempt locks), but that seems imperfect to me.

    I actually like Morrowind's system. For one thing, the lockpicking happens in real time. That would have excellent implications in games where NPCs have more pronounced 'routes' than MW (where they were largely static).  For another thing, your success depended on many factors: character's skill level, lock complexity, and lockpick quality. There were many shades of options in that system.

    A quick & dirty system like what we see in Thief is another way to go - but that is more player skill than character skill.