The Story Corner » Discussions


Writer's Discuss - Reviews

  • Member
    May 26, 2018

    As a writer, we usually want feedback from our readers. Usually it's in the form of a nice comment, questions or a paragraph-long review of the story. In most cases, you'll see a lot of the former two.

    Because let's face it: Writing paragraph-long reviews takes time. You need to sit down, carefully read the chapter/story and highlight all the good and bad things, give suggestions to the writer... Yeah, like I said, not many people have time to do all that. However those who do it show their dedication and are expressing their desire to see the story or the writer improve.

    Positive comments can boost your confidence;

    Honest reviews can improve your writing.

    So here are today's questions:

    1) Do you prefer long paragraphed reviews over short-worded comments for your story, or a balance of both?

    2) Can you handle reading an honest review about your story and not lose confidence?

    3) If you have time, would you write a review about another writer's story, highlight the good and bad, and give suggestions to them?

     

    On another, more shameless, note, I plan on making reviews for some of the stories published in TSC and give them my honest opinions as well as suggestions. It'll take time as college just started, which means less time on a computer.

  • May 26, 2018

    1) Either, as long as it's not full-on raging.

    2) If the honest review could make you lose confidence in your writing, then both you and your writing need to square up.

    3) Probably, yes.

    Also what's that about "less time on the computer for being in college", I started using my computer more when I started college (and I don't mean for studying).

  • May 27, 2018

    Reviews. That was something I gave a lot of thought back before I started doing Writers Interviews, considering this as one of the options to highlight the writers and TSC material. Problem was that the review would be solely based on my subjective opinion based on not knowing a damn thing about writing and things associated with it. Another thing that made me choose the Interviews was that reviews require you to finish the said story and review it as a whole, and frankly, how many people here finish a story? I mean, you yourself, Kaiser, have started two stories since you joined the Vault and left them both before Chapter 10 or so and you are not alone in that. So reviewing individuals chapters then? Don't know, that feels weird. Like a review for the first half of a movie or something. Another thing that put me off is that I like to read, like I really like to read and doing a review at the end of it always seemed like it would take the fun away from it, making it a chore and Malacath take me if I allowed that to happen.

    Anyway, on to your questions.

    1. I wouldn't mind comments that stir up discussion like in the old days and not just for my stories but for the whole TSC. To asnwer your question properly though I would say balance of both - mainly because there is a word count for comments on blogs. 

    2. Honestly? Not sure, never really got one of those. I think. Maybe I could handle it, maybe I couldn't. Truth remains that I was never writing to be good, but just to keep my mind busy and put a story from head onto paper (or screen). But I can tell with certainty that I wouldn't act on the review to fix the things pointed out, like I wouldn't go and fix it retrospectively. If anything I might use the advice/criticism for the future stories.

    3. I think my first paragraph before the questions summarized it rather well. Writing a story review is a huge time investment and one that I would rather spend on writing my own stuff. So I'll rather do the commenting chapter by chapter, where I say what I say. Sometimes I have plenty of words, sometimes I don't. I do comment everytime though.

  • Member
    May 27, 2018

    Karver the Lorc said:

    Another thing that made me choose the Interviews was that reviews require you to finish the said story and review it as a whole, and frankly, how many people here finish a story? I mean, you yourself, Kaiser, have started two stories since you joined the Vault and left them both before Chapter 10 or so and you are not alone in that. So reviewing individuals chapters then? Don't know, that feels weird. Like a review for the first half of a movie or something. Another thing that put me off is that I like to read, like I really like to read and doing a review at the end of it always seemed like it would take the fun away from it, making it a chore and Malacath take me if I allowed that to happen.

    Reviews don't necessarily require a finished story. Sometimes they can focus on specific story arcs (eg: the Vampire Symposium arc from Straag Rod) while others focus on the first 3-5 chapters as a way of introducing new readers to the story they're about to read. Chapter-by-chapter reviews are usually only done for TV shows. Doing it with a story is, yes, weird... unless said story has chapters of epic proportions. Also, with the blog commenting as it is, I feel like if one should make a review for a story, it would be as an individual topic in TSC with link to said story.

     

     

  • May 27, 2018

    A-Pocky-Hah! said:

    Karver the Lorc said:

    Another thing that made me choose the Interviews was that reviews require you to finish the said story and review it as a whole, and frankly, how many people here finish a story? I mean, you yourself, Kaiser, have started two stories since you joined the Vault and left them both before Chapter 10 or so and you are not alone in that. So reviewing individuals chapters then? Don't know, that feels weird. Like a review for the first half of a movie or something. Another thing that put me off is that I like to read, like I really like to read and doing a review at the end of it always seemed like it would take the fun away from it, making it a chore and Malacath take me if I allowed that to happen.

    Reviews don't necessarily require a finished story. Sometimes they can focus on specific story arcs (eg: the Vampire Symposium arc from Straag Rod) while others focus on the first 3-5 chapters as a way of introducing new readers to the story they're about to read. Chapter-by-chapter reviews are usually only done for TV shows. Doing it with a story is, yes, weird... unless said story has chapters of epic proportions. Also, with the blog commenting as it is, I feel like if one should make a review for a story, it would be as an individual topic in TSC with link to said story.

    Ah, so focusing more on the arcs rather than the whole stories or single chapters. That didn't cross my mind and have to say I quite like the idea. Shouldn't be that big time investment as a review for whole story, so that's a big plus I think. 

  • May 27, 2018

    Long Lis post, sorry.

    I'm a performing artist by trade and I have seen mainly three types of criticism. 

    1. The kind delivered with the hopes to really help and motivate the one being critiqued. This is the kind I do when I give lessons. Hey, not everyone is going to come into a studio sounding awesome. That is why they are paying me. I like this type of criticism. This type of criticism, whether delivered to a writer or a singer or anyone trying to hone a skill is great because it comes from a place where the giver cares enough to invest in improvement. 

    2. The kind delivered under bad or selfish pretence. Bringing someone down to bring you up. Or criticizing because it is not something you personally like. 

    3. The general criticism that really says nothing. "The i don't like it but can't give a reason why" 

    4. Criticism based on cultural/age/sexual or social economic bias. This one is quite prevalent now and it requires that you as a writer understand where the reader is coming from and then you need to make the decisions on your writing by putting on their shoes for a sec. 

    I also see empty comments of praise. Like people will tell me I did well when I'm just shaking my head and goiing "don't lie". To me, that is almost as bad as bad criticism. 

    Okay, Lis will finally address the questions, but she wanted to establish context first. 

    1. I like a balance. My favorite things is when something I write inspires discussion, either regarding technique or Lore. But the short encouragement is good too. Like when Paws jumps in on one of my chapters, I know to prepare for some fun. But one thing I don't like is emptiness. Like, I'd almost rather have a comment than just a like. To me, a like almost means you didn't read the story and I've caught people on that before. There is a character limit on responses though. Hmm, I have a thought on that, but let's skip to the end.

    2. This is pretty complicated.  I have technically already received a poor review. If you did through one of the early chapters of Straag, somebody gave a review basically saying Straag wasn't worth their time. And yeah, after reading that, I didn't know if I wanted to ever post something on the Vault (we were in Ning back then) again, because no human reads criticism without getting upset. If you say you do, you are full of lies and not human. :D The human condition is about ego and everybody's ego can be bruised to some degree. Notice I'm talking in degrees. It's the rate at which you bounce back that determines your acceptance of criticism, but I know it, everyone will flare just a little bit when they read something bad about themselves or about what they have done. Can last a split second and be little more than a few extra blinks or a slightly faster heartrate, but it's there.  True to being an old fire dragon in the Chinese Zodiac and a Libra, I get fiery for a few hours, bluster definitely and curse with delicious explitives and rant at my good friends while questioning the justice of it all (there's your Libra there), but then I cool down and analyze what is being said based on the four types of criticism I outlined above.  What we have to understand about reviews is that they are subjective. There are people who adore Mozart and people who adore Wagner. There are people who like Tolkien and people who don't. It doesn't make Wagner less of a composer if you don't like him or Tolkien less of a writer.

    Likewise, Karver has sometimes pointed out aspects of my story that were too gameplayish to him and I fix those without question and I don't even get mad. Because I guess I know Karver's intent when he tells me something, so it definitely feels like Type I criticism. 

    So would I be open to it? Sure. I'm in the same boat as Karver though. I write purely for pleasure, so while I like improving (who doesn't), I am not writing to "get good". Lol, that's not going to happen anyway because I'm not a good writer. I've read the greats and no I'm not there at all. While I do often change and edit to reflect lore and eliminate "gameplay" shit from my stories, I am also working on editing my third person omniscient from older chapters into simply third person with PoV, there are just some things I'm not really going to touch anymore. What's in the past is in the past, I can't fix it..., lol, again. I've already fixed Part 1 of Straag dozens of times. But, like Karves said, I'd apply the suggestions to future chapters. Heck, already doing that. Working with Karver on Chasing Aetherius already made me convert all of Part 2 to PoV writing instead, so lol, already heavily revising and editing Straag. 

    3. Really depends on how my summer goes, if I get jobs or not that I'm currently applying for. I have some huge editing projects to work on (my latest collab with Karver, Straag, builds to write). I do, however, like the idea of reviewing arcs of stories as well. I feel funny giving criticsm though, because I don't think I'm very good, so why any of the shit I say, you know? Like I'm okay with grammar and shit like that, but actual content, I dunno.

    Okay, the skip to the end part. I have considered letting members start threads about their stories in TSC, partly because it would open stories to just this type of commentary and critique without the problems wie get with the characcter limit in the blogs. Like Writers Discussion: Straag Rod or something like that, whatever. That would then be the hub for this stuff. Reviews could be linked to the "hub" and people could leave more detailed comments or suggestions. It would address the character limit of the blogs. I could also see if I can talke to EC about why there is a limit now. There wasn't really one on Ning (that bad review was quite long. HAHA, mebbe it got cut!)

  • Member
    May 29, 2018

    The Long-Chapper said:

    4. Criticism based on cultural/age/sexual or social economic bias. This one is quite prevalent now and it requires that you as a writer understand where the reader is coming from and then you need to make the decisions on your writing by putting on their shoes for a sec. 

    Funny you mentioned that. I had actually thought of making a Writer's Discuss on how we could address real-life problems through our stories, but I dunno if it would be appropriate or not as those kinds of topics tend to attract the wrong kind of feedback.

    BTW, Lis, you listed four, not three types of criticism. :P

     

  • May 29, 2018

    A-Pocky-Hah! said:

    The Long-Chapper said:

    4. Criticism based on cultural/age/sexual or social economic bias. This one is quite prevalent now and it requires that you as a writer understand where the reader is coming from and then you need to make the decisions on your writing by putting on their shoes for a sec. 

    Funny you mentioned that. I had actually thought of making a Writer's Discuss on how we could address real-life problems through our stories, but I dunno if it would be appropriate or not as those kinds of topics tend to attract the wrong kind of feedback.

    BTW, Lis, you listed four, not three types of criticism. :P

     

    Oh, I know. I originally had three, then came up with four and then tried to retcon the post to say four, but fuck it, I couldn't be arsed to get all the references to three. It doesn't take away what was said. 

    I'm open to discussions like this. Type four is interesting because it addresses the generational criticism. You don't like something because well you don't understand the references from another generation.