Skyrim Character Building » Discussions


Level Predictor, or Is My Build Reasonable?

  • Member
    October 15, 2013

    The Skyrim perk calculator gives your build a value called "level required", which tells you the number of perks you've chosen in the perk trees. But what it doesn't tell you is whether, if you achieve the skill levels you've chosen, you'll actually have enough perks.

    It's fairly easy to engineer a build on the calculator with a small number of perks but which requires a very high level (take the shortest path to the highest-level perk in each tree). If you have a build like this, it will actually take a very long time to fill out the build as you have to grind through skills. On the other hand, it's also possible to do the opposite and engineer a build with a much higher number of perks than levels will actually be gained (load up on low-level perks, especially those in skills you have racial bonuses in), meaning you'll have to grind through extra levels to perk out your build.

    Ideally, you want your expected level based on skill experience to be fairly close to your perk level. This will allow your build to progress smoothly.

    Using some formulas I found on gameskyrim.com, I was able to build a spreadsheet that will predict your build's actual level. You choose your race from a dropdown menu and add your desired skill levels in a column labeled "Target Skills". The spreadsheet will output the level you'll achieve by advancing your skills to that level as that race, and give you the number of perk points you'll have to spend (which is just your level minus one).

    I hope you enjoy the sheet and find it useful. Hopefully it can be one more tool in your build arsenal. Feel free to share it!

  • Member
    October 16, 2013

    I like this, my only concern being that it's one more way for someone to get around doing a playthrough.

  • Member
    October 16, 2013

    I like this!

    Matt is right though, people might abuse this and not do a playthrough... But I still greatly appreciate what you have done! I have noticed that on some builds you actually have to grind to get enough perk points, but I've never had a way to counter that problem.

    Now I have, and I think that this is great for those of us who want to modify builds to suit themselves; we can see for ourselves if the modification is feasible.

  • Member
    October 16, 2013

    It looks to me as though the spreadsheet has a problem... Either that, or I'm using it wrong somehow. Could someone please read through my findings here and clarify as to how we can use this tool properly. You see, the problem is this:

    If I put all the values in for a build, the result is different from when putting a single skill value in.

    I'll give an example: If (on a Breton) I have put Conjuration and Enchanting target values at 100 (ending up at level 25), and then add that I also want to reach 100 in alchemy, I end up at level 31. So I gain only SIX LEVELS from raising alchemy to 100? If I put alchemy target as 100 with no other values in, I end up immediately at level 17.

    Long story short, it appears that your spreadsheet also takes into account the fact that leveling skills grants less experience at later levels, which is something that isn't possible to take into account when figuring out which perks to take. So, for this spreadsheet to work properly, it seems that we would have to input the skill values in the actual order in which they increase i.e. exactly in the order and manner that they increase in-game, which is not possible.

    Once again, I'm perfectly aware that I might have missed something, as I'm not the greatest excel user or anything... But still, someone clarify this? I hope I'm wrong, I really do, because as I already wrote earlier I think this tool is awesome. If it works, that is.

  • Member
    October 16, 2013

    Added. Let me know if there's a problem with it -- I use OpenOffice, not, Excel, so some things don't always come across right.

  • October 16, 2013

    Andy I don't see anything wrong with the result you got there mate. From my own playtesting I'm sure that if a level 1 character spams soul trap at a corpse they end up just shy of level 20 by the time conjuration hits 100, I did it countless times during the early months playing. I've just had a play with the spreadsheet and it does seem pretty accurate...

    This tool would have been more useful back when we used to have a mini build (level 25) section in the group.

    Some people would wildly choose 25 perks and present them in a build (without playtesting) and we used to see characters with master of the mind/extra effect/daedric smithing all at level 25. We know this isn't possible, you're talking level 45+ for that kind of set up...

    It's been along time since I've seen any suspicious perk spreads though. I can still link this up with the helpdesk so builders can find it easily, someone could still find it useful...

  • Member
    October 16, 2013

    I see what you're saying, I think -- during your actual playthrough, it matters what order you gain your skill point in.

    You actually get the same amount of experience for leveling skills later in a playthrough. (The amount of level experience you get for each skill advance is equal to the rank in the skill you've achieved.) But each successive character level requires exponentially more experience.

    That said, you don't have to spend your perk points as you get them -- you can save them and spend them later on perks you didn't have access to when you got the perk. In fact, that's one of the uses of this sheet. It can help keep you from overspending perks early by letting you know that you won't have a lot of perks later on.

  • October 16, 2013

    Hmmm, maybe not...

    I just put in the values for my Bronze Sentinel and got back a level 37 result (should be 50) and that's a pretty clean cut character (no side crafting or tinkering with other magic schools)

    Maybe if everyone could load up their characters and put in the values to test this tool we can decide if it's working correctly.

  • Member
    October 16, 2013

    Yeah, I think if people make a build that is unreasonable it is pretty easy to spot. My motivation in making this was to help plan the build beforehand so that I could avoid having to roll back to old saves on account of bad leveling. I was starting up a build where I wanted exactly one spell, and I wanted to see whether that would cause a problem where I ran out of perks.

  • October 16, 2013

    My Heretic reports in at around level 48 according to the spreadsheet, he's level 60 with all his perks placed...