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Let's talk about GOTS8 Episode Three

  • Mr.
    • 763 posts
    April 28, 2019 9:35 PM EDT

    In your reply to this thread, please paste this at the top of your comment before writing your actual reply:

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    Oh my...

    What did you think of it?

    Did you enjoy it?

    What was the most interesting thing to you?

    What are your predictions to episode 4?

    Talk about anything you want. But remember, NO LEAKS.

    • 197 posts
    April 29, 2019 2:30 AM EDT

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

     

    Here we go!!!

     

    i love how they panned around to show everyone getting ready for battle, showing Jon and Dany last. Nice touch. And LOVE LOVE LOVE  the look Bran and Tyrion exchanged. I knew they’d said some meaningful things last week after the cameras went away. 

    Wow, the Red Woman’s back? Where’s she been? Can’t lie, I usually hate to see her coming, but the fiery swords are welcome. 

    How could they see all those wights? I could see nothing. And what the fuck was that? What the actual fuck was that? Sending all the Dothraki out what the fuck was that? Whose decision was that? My husband is a tactician and he’s losing his damned mind right now. I mean, it’s dramatic as all hell, but not at all effective. 

    I cannot even. Long night, indeed. 

    Fire and ice. Cool. Maybe one of the dragons can sit the iron throne. 

    Sam, dammit. Damn. You know, I know why he had to stay out of the crypt, but he had to know he wasn’t going to be much good on the battlefield, for all his “i killed the first wight.“ 

    what are Jon and Dany doing? Looking for the Night King? Viserion? 

    i’m Honestly shocked that the first part of the battle went that way. Shocked. And a little confused. 

    Ooh, Arya saved the Hound! Awesome. I really liked their story and wasn’t ready for it to end. 

    Wow, the Red Woman really walks super slow. Again, very dramatic, but come on, sister. She saw that they needed help with the fire part, why wait so long? Again, super confused. 

    Ok, i like Sansa and Tyrion’s exchange. This is what I love about the show, all the relationships. 

    oh, Bran can warg into ravens? How incredibly HELPFUL. 

    yep, matter of timebefore someone figured out how to make a wall of wights to climb oveR. 

    Ah, the night king’s baiting Jon. And Jon, in his special “leeroy jenkins” way, is taking it. That’s not the plan. i hope he’s leading him where he’s supposed to be instead of just taking over. 

    I forgot about the HOund being paralyzed by fire. Whoa, Arya is a total badass. Zomg the Hound ran through the fire for Arya! And go LYanna. taking the giant down was a feat. RIP little hellion. 

    Why are the wights in the library? This whole scene is very Jurassic Park. Love it. 

    I’m very surprised that Tyrion is in the crypt. I seriously thought he’d come to some sort of mysterious agreement with Bran about altering that plan a bit. Disappointing. 

    Why...why not use fire on Viserion first instead of ramming him? Getting close to enemies in combat probably shouldn’t be a first option. As they should have learned already. 

    the night king looks like such a douche. I mean, i know he’s the apparent villain of the piece, but his face is really pissy and dimly arrogant. Like that one guy in the office that does nothing but complain and work super slowly so everyone else has to take up his slack.

    we’re sitting here, my husband and me, yelling at the tv. Why are peole making such horrible decisions? These aren’t terrible tacticians, why are they doing this shit? honest to god, i’m super confused right now. I feel like we’re watching a parody of game of thrones right now. I get that no one’s perfect, that not everything works out, that sometimes even the greatest fighters lose, but this battle ignored just about every rule of war there was to ignore. I know i’ve Said this before, but i’m Just shocked right now. 

    WHY did Sansa not give Tyrion that damn dagger before? You know, maybe i’m Being too harsh. I mean, i have no idea idea what i’d Do in this situation, but right now, i will be absolutely shocked if anyone makes it out alive. And if they do, there’s got to be some miracle between now and the end. Because i have no idea how it’s possible. the music’s really pretty, though.

    ARYA!!! Oh thank you for ending that battle. 

     

    So what the hell was everything everyone was doing for? Why were jon and Dany flying all that way for so long? What were bran’s ravens doing? Did he see what was going to happen? are they SERIOUSLY going to just sideline Tyrion? Why was all this necessary just for Arya to end it with one well-placed stab? I have to say I’m unbelievably disappointed with this episode, especially after the amazingness of the first 2. I’m sure there’s tons of shit I missed that makes this all make perfect sense, but i don’t know, man. It seemed completely anticlimactIc for CERSEI to be the “last war,” rather than the night king. I was terrified that they were going to do it like this, and so hopeful that this show wouldn’t. Wouldn’t do one battle after another, the battle against the night king wrapped up before they take on king’s landing. I hope that i’m Wrong, that there’s someThing i’m Missing. 

    Sorry for the ridiculous capitalization here. My ipad keyboard is on its last legs. I liked the relationship growth here, as usual, I guess. Arya and the Hound were perfect. Sansa and Tyrion were interesting to watch. There just wasn’t much there that I enjoyed, unfortunately. 

     

    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 3:40 AM EDT

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    To be fair, in regards to his arroagance, I liked that bit where he smiles after walking out of the fire, as a sort of way to telling Jon and Dany "Did you think that was going to work?" as for the stab, well, there's nothing shown that states the Night King, created from dragonglass infusion, couldn't be felled by it like any other. Plus, to be fair, him dueling Jon and Jon killing him would have been cliche. Plus, despite the living winning (Cause, let's face it, even if GRRM wants to subvert tropes, even he knows just killing every character would piss off a lot of fans), a lot of people still died


    This post was edited by Chris at April 29, 2019 10:08 AM EDT
    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 3:43 AM EDT

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

     

    And, to be fair to everyone making poor tactical decisions, consider that, even if they don't show it, its likely a number of the characters are, to one extent or another, panicking, and are facing what seems to be an endless army


    This post was edited by Chris at April 29, 2019 10:08 AM EDT
    • 1467 posts
    April 29, 2019 5:19 AM EDT

    Oy Chris, to follow the rules could you repost your stuff with the Spoiler Warning. Not sure if you might spoil anything with that comment but just in case


    This post was edited by SpookyBorn2021 at April 29, 2019 5:25 AM EDT
    • 197 posts
    April 29, 2019 9:23 AM EDT

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

     

    Oh, yeah, I didn’t want Jon to kill the night king either. Honestly? I didn’t want the night king to even be there. I was hoping he’d do something like skirt around to King’s Landing and use Winterfell as a diversion, in a way that made everyone’s predictions about his behavior completely wrong. Or, I was hoping something would happen to get all the armies together and the night king would be the last battle, rather than cersEi. What frightened me a bit about this season was that they’d structure it this way: battle for winterfell (destroy night king and white walkers) followed by squabble over iron throne and last battle for that. Battle. Pause and squabble. Battle. 

    It might be how most things go, and it might be the most realistic thing to do, but i was hoping this show wouldn’t do that. 

    Or, if the night king had to be at winterfell, i was hoping his end would be a bit more mystical. A bit more involving bran and the history and magic that supposedly suffused the north. The old gods, etc. bran and his warg-y powers. Ravens. You know? Anything but a stab with a dagger, even a dragonglass one. Even one wielded by someone who’s probably my favorite character in the show. We had two characters here who could see what was going to happen. Or at least the end of it all. I mean, maybe they’ll do a thing (like another battle involving someone who can see the future that has happened recently) where the people who can see the future will say that if they’d said something, if they’d done something different, that particular outcome wouldn’t have happened, and everything would have been lost. Maybe. If that happens, fine. I just felt the whole thing was anticlimactic, for one of the main story arcs of the whole show. 

    And I agree, everyone’s panicking. Dany panicked when her Dothraki got annhiliated and changed the course of the battle, for one. but their issues started before the endless army even showed up, really. Even got within artillery distance from the walls. I just feel like with so many intelligent people practiced in the history of war, the art and science of war, they’d have done things differently. It’s like the showrunners wanted to be lord of the rings. I mean, lord of the rings was a great movie. But i diDn’t Want this to be lord of the rings. If that makes sense. This has to do more with my dislike of the battle - pause and squabble- battle formula more than their missteps, but still. 

     

     

    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 10:08 AM EDT

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    Oy Chris, to follow the rules could you repost your stuff with the Spoiler Warning. Not sure if you might spoil anything with that comment but just in case

    Oh, alright, done

    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 10:11 AM EDT

    ilanisilver said:

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

     

    Oh, yeah, I didn’t want Jon to kill the night king either. Honestly? I didn’t want the night king to even be there. I was hoping he’d do something like skirt around to King’s Landing and use Winterfell as a diversion, in a way that made everyone’s predictions about his behavior completely wrong. Or, I was hoping something would happen to get all the armies together and the night king would be the last battle, rather than cersEi. What frightened me a bit about this season was that they’d structure it this way: battle for winterfell (destroy night king and white walkers) followed by squabble over iron throne and last battle for that. Battle. Pause and squabble. Battle. 

    It might be how most things go, and it might be the most realistic thing to do, but i was hoping this show wouldn’t do that. 

    Or, if the night king had to be at winterfell, i was hoping his end would be a bit more mystical. A bit more involving bran and the history and magic that supposedly suffused the north. The old gods, etc. bran and his warg-y powers. Ravens. You know? Anything but a stab with a dagger, even a dragonglass one. Even one wielded by someone who’s probably my favorite character in the show. We had two characters here who could see what was going to happen. Or at least the end of it all. I mean, maybe they’ll do a thing (like another battle involving someone who can see the future that has happened recently) where the people who can see the future will say that if they’d said something, if they’d done something different, that particular outcome wouldn’t have happened, and everything would have been lost. Maybe. If that happens, fine. I just felt the whole thing was anticlimactic, for one of the main story arcs of the whole show. 

    And I agree, everyone’s panicking. Dany panicked when her Dothraki got annhiliated and changed the course of the battle, for one. but their issues started before the endless army even showed up, really. Even got within artillery distance from the walls. I just feel like with so many intelligent people practiced in the history of war, the art and science of war, they’d have done things differently. It’s like the showrunners wanted to be lord of the rings. I mean, lord of the rings was a great movie. But i diDn’t Want this to be lord of the rings. If that makes sense. This has to do more with my dislike of the battle - pause and squabble- battle formula more than their missteps, but still. 

     

     

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

     

    True enough

    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 10:11 AM EDT

    But I like to think that may not be the end of it, a Red Herring

    • 321 posts
    April 29, 2019 11:31 AM EDT
    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    So I was vacationing in Langkawi and I got back to my hotel room, switched on the TV, and found myself watching the episode just near the end of it, like when Jon meets the Night King. I shit you not, I was actually on the edge of my seat until the very end. Hell, I couldn't even charge my phone without looking away from the TV screen. I was kinda satisfied with how it ended. I'll be honest, I would be very disappointed if Bran pulled some Old Magic deus ex machina to destroy the Night King. I've had enough of that shit with RWBY.

    I'll have to rewatch the episode from the start before I could comment anything on the tactics part.
    • 197 posts
    April 29, 2019 11:55 AM EDT

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

     

    but would it be a deus ex machina? I argue it would not. It’s not implausible - this conflict between the three-eyed raven and night king has gone on for longer than everyone on the show has been alive, and it’s been hinted at and foreshadowed for the entire running of the show. It wouldn’t be a sudden and unprecedented  plot device for those same reasons - everyone’s been waiting for Bran to make sense, for his journey as the three-eyed raven to come full circle. AND - the problem has another solution. It doesn’t require a deus ex machina to be solved - the show proved that, having Arya dispatch him with dragonglass, an expectedly-successful weapon. If a problem has another solution - solvable by common sense and logic and hard work and careful planning and execution, whatever Bran could have done with old magic wouldn’t be a deus ex machina, no matter how crazy or outlandish it was. 

    That being said, i get that it would disappoint you, even as I own that it would fulfill my expectations for the show. I’ve been reading lots of discussions about the show and they all seem to go this way - people either love it or they don’t. They’re either fully satisfied by what happened, or they really, really aren’t - and the reasons are all varied. I was honestly surprised that ANYONE wanted it to be Jon who killed the Night King, for example. That resolution had never crossed my mind, and although I think I’d like it in the long run because it would give Jon even more ammunition in his claim over Danerys’s...still, it’s not the one i was hoping for. 

    But you can’t please everyone all the time, and i’m honestly so happy with the first 2 episodes that I think my satisfaction meter is still in the black as far as the season as a whole goes, now that I’vE had time to cool off. Hopefully i can just concentrate on the things I love and ignore those I don’t from here on out. 

    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 11:58 AM EDT
    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    Plus, the showrunners state their goal was not to kill the Night King, but rather, unnake him. Remember, he was created when a dragonglass dagger was plunged into him by a young looking girl. So too has he, once again been plunged by a dragonglass dagger by a young looking girl
    • 197 posts
    April 29, 2019 12:02 PM EDT

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

     

    I agree, you pretty much have to unmake the Night King in order to get rid of him and all his creations. I’m with you on that. They proved that, I think, through his survival in the face of dragon fire. I just wish his unmaking had been done in a way that was more satisfying to me, personally. I’m selfish that way. ;)

    • 321 posts
    April 29, 2019 12:07 PM EDT
    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    @Chris Huh, now that you mention it, that's rather poetic. Didn't realise that was the showrunners' intention. I don't know, I guess I'm at that point where I just want to see a show I've been following for a long time end without having to think too much of the reasons.
    • 197 posts
    April 29, 2019 1:07 PM EDT

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

     

    https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-winterfell-battle-tactical-analysis/

     

    This article says everything, tactics-wise. And I’m not trying to say I know better how to fight than the characters in the show, with what I’m trying to point out, here. What I’m saying is that the characters in the show would have known better, and to write them the way they did was a disservice to the characters. That is one big reason I was disappointed. 

     

    • 197 posts
    April 29, 2019 1:21 PM EDT
    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    This is also a fantastic article, and more of what I would like to have seen. More cleverness, less brute force. They have some of the cleverest people in Westeros right there. It was a shame not to have used them.

    https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/a-military-officer-dissects-jon-snows-battle-strategy-and-finds-it-lacking
    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 5:50 PM EDT
    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    One thing I loved was how Theon went out. He died, not only to save one of the sole members of a family he betrayed, who he personally threatened, and after he ran from his sister, he died like a true Ironborn, he charged at death, and died fighting. Also it's rather somber to note, with Jorah and Lyanna dead, House Mormont is no more.
    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 5:52 PM EDT
    Also, some people expected the NK to have been a Targeryen....
    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 6:03 PM EDT
    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    And whike this is mostly a thing from last episode, people theorized Jenny's Song, about a Targeryen prince gives up his throne for his beloved, might parallel what Jon/Aegon does for Dany. Plus, she needs SOMETHING good to happen to her, and well Jon, both book and show, never struck me as much of a ruler type. If I recall, someone once described Jon as basically a Churchill esque figure, a great leader during wartime, but once his service is over, he returns to a normal ish life, sequestered
    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 7:07 PM EDT

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    I was watching a reaction to the episode, but here's the thing, during the bit where the Night King grabs Arya, the voice over, to prevent copyright, is instead the lines Syrio said to Arya, about what happens if she drops her weapon, to which Syrio responds, "they die." Arya dropped her dagger from one hand to one that was free, and stabs the NK in what I believe was the same spot that hte original Dragonglass dagger that made him into the Night King was plunged int

    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 8:55 PM EDT

    You know, I found this video, and it covers something I've always wondered. One of the sort of semi-sayings from the North is that The North Remembers. Well, the video theorized on what the North could be remembering, what event

    • 1439 posts
    April 29, 2019 8:58 PM EDT

    A-Pocky-Hah! said: SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers... So I was vacationing in Langkawi and I got back to my hotel room, switched on the TV, and found myself watching the episode just near the end of it, like when Jon meets the Night King. I shit you not, I was actually on the edge of my seat until the very end. Hell, I couldn't even charge my phone without looking away from the TV screen. I was kinda satisfied with how it ended. I'll be honest, I would be very disappointed if Bran pulled some Old Magic deus ex machina to destroy the Night King. I've had enough of that shit with RWBY. I'll have to rewatch the episode from the start before I could comment anything on the tactics part.

     

    This vid mentions that exact fact

    • 197 posts
    April 29, 2019 11:55 PM EDT

    Lolz, there’s also this. Hysterical. Can’t copy and paste the spoiler thing on my phone for some reason so I’ll copy this even though I don’t think you can see pics unless you click on the discussion. But I’ll play it safe. 

     

    Lolz, there’s also this. Hysterical. Can’t copy and paste the spoiler thing on my phone for some reason so I’ll copy this even though I don’t think you can see pics unless you click on the discussion. But I’ll play it safe. 

     

  • Mr.
    • 763 posts
    May 2, 2019 5:02 PM EDT

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    I'm very, very disappointed.

    The Good

    The direction was beautiful, amazing. Miguel Sapochnik is a genius, he does battles like no one else, the beginning of the episode with Sam and everyone getting read was so intense. I felt like I was at Winterfell, shitting my pants just looking at the dark, waiting for something, anything to happen. All of this was made better by Ramin Djawadi's amazing score, that man makes some of the most beautiful scores I've heard, both on TV and film.

    The acting was some of the best I've seen this season. Sansa and Tyrion's moment together in the crypts was so, so beautiful. As was Daenerys and Jorah fighting on the fields, and Daenerys' pain as she mourns her friend (and Drogon comes and wraps himself around his mother, weeping). Of course, we can't forget John Bradley's (Sam) amazing portrayal of what most of us would feel like in that situation; Melisandre's fear as she realizes her God might not answer her call when she is about to light the trench; Theon Greyjoy's redemption and relief as he hears from Bran that he is a good man; The Hound's realization that this was it, that death was imminent. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime), as always, was amazing, and I loved his scenes fighting side by side with Brienne.

    The really fucking bad, almost ruined the show for me and I want GRRM to release "The Winds of Winter" even more now

    All of the positives makes me mad at how the writers have failed us. The actors, the director, the composer, the cinematography, all of it was perfect. But man, the writing... Not only tactics-wise, which I could get over with, but concerning three main points:

    1. The Crypts. What a dumb fricking "twist". I don't mind the wights finding themselves into the Crypts, but having Starks that have been dead for, what, 300 years to burst out of STONE GRAVES, when a WOODEN BOX held a wight during last season, when they brought one to show to Cersei? Not only that, but the most recent people to be buried in the crypts was Rickon Stark and a (headless) Ned Stark, and Littlefinger makes it clear that his bones were delivered to Winterfell. That's it. Robb's body was desecrated by the Freys and Boltons and Catelyn's body was thrown in the river. Before that, you've got Rickard Stark (who was burned alive by Aerys Targaryen), Lyanna Stark and Brandon Stark. So at best, if you really want to push it, you have three Wights (Rickon, Rickard and Lyanna) who could have some sort of body remaining, but even then, definitely not enough to break through a damn stone grave. Realistically, you have Rickon.

    Not only that, but it's made clear in the books that the reason why the Starks put an Iron Sword over each grave in the Crypts is a surperstitious one, but exactly one to prevent this kind of thing: it is said that by doing so, you prevent the dead from rising. It might be considered "superstition" now, but I'm pretty sure it's not, given the Starks' history and... well, the name of their castle (Winterfell... where Winter Fell, during the first Long Night).

    2. Plot armor. So you're saying you have put Brienne, Jaime, Tormund, Pod, Gendry, Grey Worm, Edd, Sam and Jorah on the front lines. Out of those, only Edd fell? Out of the entire battle, the only big characters who died were Theon and Jorah? This was beyond stupid. And it ties into my third point.

    3. The Long Night. More like the Mildly Inconvenient Evening. So this apocalyptic event, that almost wiped out humanity when it happened the first time, required an enormous amount of sacrifice to be halted and warranted the construction of a 200ft tall Wall of magic ice, ends after one single battle? People in the Riverlands weren't even affected by the "Long Night". Hell, people in the Neck, in White Harbour, in anywhere on the North but Winterfell and Last Hearth, didn't even get to see a wight. People in Essos much less.

    4. It feels really shitty that Arya was the one to anime-kill the big bad. Have you watched the Behind the Scenes with the writers, D&D? They say: well, we thought it wouldn't be right if Jon was the one that did it (they might have even spoiled the books here), so we thought about who would we not expect to be the one to do it? Well, the person that just learned about this last episode and had a character arch that never even touched with the Night King! The writers literally say that the reason they decided it would be Arya to kill the Night King would be because it would SuBvErT EXpeCtAtiONs! I'm so sick of this subvert expectations thing. They ruined Star Wars, and might as well ruin GoT.

    The problem is not subverting expectations. The problem is subverting expectations for the sake of subverting expectations. Look how GRRM does it: every time he "subverts our expectations", he's been dropping hints all over the place when we look back. He's been slowly building it so that, when he does subvert our expectations, it doesn't come out of nowhere. See: Ned's honour brings his downfall (trusting Littlefinger, telling Cersei he knows, refusing Renly's help). Later on, it's Ned's honour that helps to motivate the Northern lords to conspirate against Roose Bolton (in the books, they fucked the North up in the show too) and it's Ned's honour that brings many of the Northern houses into siding with Stannis on his quest to take down the Boltons.

    Also see: the Red Wedding. It's a series of bad decisions by Robb and Catelyn, but it all comes down to Robb trusting Theon and sending him back to Winterfell (if Theon didn't sack Winterfell, Catelyn wouldn't think Bran and Rickon were dead. If Catelyn didn't think Bran and Rickon were dead, she wouldn't be so desperate to get her two remaining children out of King's Landing. If Catelyn hadn't been so desperate to get Arya and Sansa back, she wouldn't have freed Jaime. If Catelyn hadn't freed Jaime, she wouldn't have given reason to Rickard Karstark to go against Robb's will and murder the Lannister hostages. If Rickard Karstark hadn't murdered the Lannister hostages, Robb wouldn't have had to execute Rickard Karstark. If Robb hadn't executed Rickard Karstark, the Karstarks wouldn't leave Robb's army. If the Karstarks hadn't left Robb's army, he wouldn't need the Freys' help so desperately. If Robb didn't need the Freys, there would be no marriage alliance, and NO RED WEDDING.

    GRRM does it right. He subverts your expectations, but when you look back, it all makes sense that things ended up where they did (Ned's execution, the Red Wedding).

    I'm just so pissed.

     

     

  • Mr.
    • 763 posts
    May 2, 2019 5:21 PM EDT

    SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on "more" if you don't want to be spoiled! This discussion contains spoilers for Game of Thrones Season 8, previous seasons of the show, the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series and related works by George R. R. Martin. If you haven't watched this episode yet, leave now, for the discussion is dark, and full of spoilers...

    At least we got this masterpiece out of the episode.

    Seeing as I sometimes like to put "soundtracks" when reading books or thinking about something that just happened in a book (something I learned reading Stephen King books, I still associate "Bad Moon Rising" with The Shining and "Born in the USA" with IT), I'm very happy with the soundtrack Ramin Djawadi has made for the show.


    This post was edited by Mr. at May 2, 2019 5:23 PM EDT