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• SpookyBorn2021

  

  • 1467 posts
   

  October 13, 2016 11:30 PM EDT

  Ah, let me just get out a quick disclaimer. I'm posting this as part of a school assingment where I've chosen to analzye three different RPG's, or at least games that we consider RPG's. So in some ways I'm trying to use you guys as a chance to improve my assigment with 'facts' but on the other hand I think I've got an interesting topic today.

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  When I think of an RPG, my mind used to instantly be drawn to Morrowind. It's a classical RPG in every since, with annoying combat, an amazing story, characters, skill progression, replayability, I could go on and on. But recently that's changed for me, Morrowind is still undeniably in my top 5, but recently The Witcher 3 has toppled it as my personal representation of what an RPG is. And this has recently made me think...what is an RPG? Because, our very own RPG Group has a super diverse range of main games, one that I want to mention is Dark Souls...which for me is about as far away from an RPG as I thought there was in the group, there's no story or character focus (well other than in memes from what I can tell) and it's all about becoming as combat-savvy as possible, at least that's the impression I've gotten from it. Hell in 10 hours of gamplay, I still haven't really figured out what the story is about, or who I should give a shit about. But Dark Souls, is by many considered a great RPG, and it is an RPG by definiton, and yet for me I just don't see it as one.

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  Before I get into asking you questions, I wanted to direct you to two polls I've started. These are polls I hope to be able to use as data in my assignment, so if you don't want to answer any questions could you at least take 10-20 seconds to fill out the poll? It'd be a huge help to me :D

  What series do you think fits the term RPG? (You can tick as many boxes as you want here.

  What games best fits the term RPG? (Only one answer for this one.)

  So, I wanted to ask you guys a couple of questions. You don't have to answer any of them, and just as a technical thing, I will mention that unless I ask permission I won't use anything you say in my assignment as a quote (not that, more than maybe 5 people are ever going to see it). 

  What do you think defines an RPG?

  What is the 'best' RPG series?

  What is the 'best' RPG?

  Are there games you consider an RPG that might not be defined that way?

• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  October 14, 2016 2:28 AM EDT

  What do you think defines an RPG?

  At its broadest; a game wherein a player assumes the role of a character within a narrative. I'd expand that to require a sandbox or multiple-choice narrative. Games that just plop you onto a railroad and you're there to experience the story as it's told to you, aren't role playing games, they're elaborate movies. Pokemon isn't an RPG, except for the their tabletop RPG. And even though KotOR and Mass Effect have an overarching storyline you can't escape from and the gameplay is rather railroading, there are (slightly) different outcomes caused by decision making on your end.

  Lost Odyssey is a great example of what I mean. It's basically an incredibly elaborate visual novel. I don't play the role of any character. I just manipulate an avatar to explore this railroad narrative that's regulated by turn based combat. It's an interesting game, but not an RPG.

  What is the 'best' RPG series?

  Elder Scrolls has a pretty rich lore, number of games, notoriety for gameplay and character options. I think it's the best because it fulfills all my desires in RPGs better than the rest.

  What is the 'best' RPG?

  That's a difficult question to answer. Some games I adore for their storyline, like KotOR and KotOR2, but their gameplay isn't enjoyable. There are some games that have enjoyable mechanics and storytelling that aren't bad, but aren't the best like Dragon Age.

  Are there games you consider an RPG that might not be defined that way?

  I noticed you forgot MMORPGs. I've spent more time roleplaying in World of Warcraft than any other video game. SWtOR is a really shitty MMORPG, but an okay single-player RPG.

   

  My biggest gripe is why you only include videogames. Tabletop RPGs beat any video game RPG I've ever played. D&D is more enjoyable and fulfilling than any computer or xbox game I own. Heck, I've taken video game settings, played in them with tabletop games, and enjoyed the experience more than the video game.

  Your polls will also be pretty biased towards Elder Scrolls and Fallout considering this website and its audience.

• SpookyBorn2021

  

  • 1467 posts
   

  October 14, 2016 3:17 AM EDT

  My biggest gripe is why you only include videogames. Tabletop RPGs beat any video game RPG I've ever played. D&D is more enjoyable and fulfilling than any computer or xbox game I own. Heck, I've taken video game settings, played in them with tabletop games, and enjoyed the experience more than the video game.

  Well I did it purely because the unit that I'm doing this assignment for is about Video Gaming, not general gaming...If I was doing this just for general interest I would talk a lot more about tabletop games, but I also think that they're generally a lot more clear cut than video games (but then again, my knowledge of Tabletop RPG's doesn't expand far outside of D&D).

  Your polls will also be pretty biased towards Elder Scrolls and Fallout considering this website and its audience.

  True I think the 'best' video game poll will probably be a bit more biased than the second one, and if I thought about it a bit more I would've changed Fallout to Baldur's Gate. But it's a bit late to change it now, the exact results probably aren't going to really matter (since I doubt I'd get conclusive enough information in the end). 

• Overhate

  

  • 288 posts
   

  October 14, 2016 4:31 AM EDT

  Assuming the discussion is on video games, a RPG is obviously a game that lets you choose (very important for me) and play a specific character in a specific way. And since we're talking about games, for me the most importat aspect of that "role-playing" is the gameplay, not the conversation options. "Moral alignment" may play a role too, but it's secondary. A true RPG then is a game that requires you to use different gameplay approaches to a specific situation depending on character class - the fighter storms through the gate and kills everyone, the thief sneaks in silently in the night, the wizard casts spells from a distance, the bard enchants everyone inside with his songs, etc. It should also require that a class is also somehow barred from other classes' solutions - e.g. the fighter is totally unable to sneak, the thief and bard cannot survive a frontal assault if they tried brute force, etc. In that sense beating the game with a specific class would demand that you become that class and start to think like that class.

  With the above in mind, I'm yet to see a "perfect" RPG. The closest I've seen is Sierra's Quest for Glory series, which is, however, not a "true" action based RPG but a hybrid between point&click adventure and RPG. The Ultima series were praised as a close to perfect RPG back in the 90's but I've never played any Ultima game so I cannot offer any "expertise" there. Bethesda's Elder Scrolls series especially the later installments are not that class restrictive and don't seem to penalize you enough for playing outside of your chosen class. Skyrim, as well as all MMORPG's I've played starting with WoW, are basically combat games - you can choose how to fight but you cannot choose not to fight. There is no way for you to outthink or outsmart your opponents or to somehow avoid them altogether. Or to trick them into fighting one another and doing your work for you; and all of the above is essential to some classes, at least IMO. IF Skyrim, for example, was a "true RPG" it would have had options to escape Helgen without killing anyone, to end the civil war peacefully with both Ulfric and Tullius alive, to destroy the DB without having to kill an old woman, to bring justice to Riften by ending the TG (not necessarily killing them) and, of course, to somehow beat Alduin without having to fight him directly. The Fallout series used to be very RPG in the beginning under Interplay, especially in Fallout 2 where some of the aforementioned principles - outsmarting your opponents, causing them to fight one another etc. - were definitely possible. For example in the final boss battle against Frank Horrigan a character with high science and speech skills could program the turrets to attack him, release a poisonous gas that weakens him and convince some of the Enclave power armour troopers to fight him. All of this was lost, however, when Fallout went under Bethesda and now it's just like the ES - mostly combat.

  
  This post was edited by Overhate at October 15, 2016 3:18 AM EDT
• WuYiXiang

  

  • 312 posts
   

  October 14, 2016 9:06 AM EDT

  What do you think defines an RPG?

  An RPG is, as its name implies, a game that allows for some form of Role-Play. You get the choose almost everything about your character:  What he (or she) does, how he reacts to certain events, and (of course) how or if he fights.

  What is the 'best' RPG series?

  Mount and Blade is an excellent RPG series. You as a character can choose not to do battle at all, choosing instead to allow your hired guards to do the dirty work for you while you sit in a corner of the battlefield praying that you don't get your butt handed to you on a stick.

   

  What is the 'best' RPG?

  Uncharted Waters Online is, in my opinion, the "best" RPG for much the same reason Mount and Blade is the "best" RPG series. If you're attacked, you can simply choose to turn around and sail out of the battle rather than being forced to fight. Rather than being a maritime (battle) class, there are also traders, crafters, and adventurers. You can be almost anything or (if you so desire) everything. There's no limit except for the 50-skill slot lmit.

  Are there games you consider an RPG that might not be defined that way?

  I can't think of any of the top of my head.

• Gollum

  

  • 558 posts
   

  October 14, 2016 7:47 PM EDT

  What do you think defines an RPG? Creating a character and exploring an open/procedural world. RPG's allow you to customize your character with loot. There is a plot to give purpose to the game.

  What is the 'best' RPG series? I don't play many RPG's, and I haven't played all of the ES games in the series, but I'm going to have to say Elder Scrolls.

  What is the 'best' RPG? Nethack. It is the perfect definition RPG.

  Are there games you consider an RPG that might not be defined that way? Can't think of any. 

• Zonnonn

  

  • 585 posts
   

  October 15, 2016 2:50 AM EDT

  What do you think defines an RPG?

  In my opinion, an RPG is a game that allows the player to be immersed into their charcater more than other games. Doing so by allowing and encouraging RP, giving the player choices that have meaningful effects, and allowing a high level of creativity for players when designing and playing their characters.

  What is the 'best' RPG series?

  I'm inclined to go Elder Scrolls on this one, but I haven't really played any others.

  Dark Souls, like you said, feels linear interms of plot, and I also didn't know aht was going on at all when I was playing.

  Dragon Age also felt a bit on rails to me, as you had to choose missions to play in order to allow exploration, and the fact that you couldn't walk in between maps also annoyed me. I also found that I had little connection to my characters, as I could play with three others all the time, which was also a bit detrimental to RP and me feeling for my charcater.

  Mass Effect suffered from the same thing Dragon Age does, it felt linear and the lack of true open world (or should I say open universe) was a tad frustrating. Not being able to go on half the planets you find, and if there wasn't a mission their it was pointless to even visit, felt very un-RPGish.

  What is the 'best' RPG?

  I think I'd have to say Oblivion over Skyrim (they're the only two ES games I've played), as Oblivion felt more intimidating for the uninitiated, the gameplay was more complex, quest provided RP oppurtunites were more abundant, and the world was so big and busy that it wasn't hard to feel like a normal guy on a quest, while in Skyrim you always get the feeling your the Dragonborn.

  Are there games you consider an RPG that might not be defined that way?

  Not really, but if I had to say one... I guess maybe Minecraft? It's fairly simple, but is the definition of open world, kinda allows you to RP as a farmer or a miner or something, and it's possible to not be an all powerful fighter while playing. Yeah, it's a bit of an odd choice, but that's all I can think of.