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Creative Process War Stories

    • 700 posts
    February 7, 2016 4:24 PM EST

    We spend a lot of time here looking at finished products, all neat and prettied up for viewing, but every piece of content here has gone through the "creative process". That long, frustrating, and rewarding affair where we're as critical of our work as we are passionate. So pull up a seat, grab a mug of your preferred swill, and share some war stories. 

    What were some of your most trying projects? 

    Were there ever any projects you threw out because it became too difficult?

    What strategies do you use to get through the creative process? 

    • 1467 posts
    February 7, 2016 5:13 PM EST

    Ah, my greatest enemy is myself when it comes to creation.

    Gather round young'ns and let me tell yer about the olden stories of Dragonborn1421 (I know right...my number has increased by 300 since then )

    My most trying project was my Veiled Scribe, which is purely based on how I presented the build. Over the course of the build. The banners designed were done using HTML, instead of how I'd do it now (10 minutes in Powerpoint ) it took me over a month with those banners, and of course I changed the actual text a dozen times at least. I nearly gave up a couple times over the course of the build because I got so aggravated with the banners. 

    I've thrown out multiple projects throughout the years, I don't know if any of them were because of difficulty, more lack of time, commitment, energy and all of that. I think the closest thing was a couple long-term projects but even then, mostly time problems.

    Strategies...strategies, yeah I don't know about any of them. My inspiration comes, I either throw it on paper or throw it out the window (By this, I mean throw it into my own personal Recycling Bin and probably will pull it out 2 years later). Most of it comes from 'completing' the project, or posting it in the Workshop. Really that's my main strategy, post it in the Workshop or run it over with other people, the words of others inspire me to post content really. 

    • 700 posts
    February 7, 2016 6:52 PM EST

    The banners designed were done using HTML, instead of how I'd do it now (10 minutes in Powerpoint )

    Dear gods, man, that must have been hell! I don't even like looking at all that mess, but you had to go in make it bend to your will. Props. 

    more lack of time, commitment, energy and all of that.

    I totally get it. And it's frustrating to not have these things! Which is why I agree wholeheatedly with what you said about the workshop. It took me roughly a year to make my first build from conception to the final product and I threw out about three drafts of it at the start. I think the Workshop is probably what helped me stick with it, just because it was right there and I could work very slowly. So yeah, time is a beast. 

    • 694 posts
    February 7, 2016 7:46 PM EST

    I was recently fussing and fussing with the header for the RP profile. Sometimes ideas you conceive of don't actually work that well when you go to execute them, and the battle of how much time you sink into an idea before throwing in the towel can be a REAL struggle. I have anywhere from 2-20 drafts of every single image that I've edited in the past few weeks. 

    But I also have scrapped builds, scrapped stories, scrapped artwork... it's almost too painful to recount the hours lost. But in the end it was all still fun, and that's what makes it worthwhile. 

    • 1467 posts
    February 7, 2016 8:06 PM EST

    Headers, there it is Edana, the worst. I've got one I'm working on that's been done at least 2 dozen times (not including name changes and that kind of thing), my general rule of thumb is try 30 times and then get someone else to do it 

    But I also have scrapped builds, scrapped stories, scrapped artwork... it's almost too painful to recount the hours lost. But in the end it was all still fun, and that's what makes it worthwhile.

    Exactly, just this. 

    • 694 posts
    February 7, 2016 9:25 PM EST

    Oh good. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's scrapped that much and still likes doing it. 

    • 1467 posts
    February 7, 2016 9:36 PM EST

    If anything I prefer scrapping an idea sometimes. A lot of my 'builds' are quick concepts (Bound Bow + Explosions or something) that I want to play just for fun, but I feel compelled to create the build first. Then I generally scrap it and can take the elements from 6 or so and combine them into one super awesome build 

    So I guess that would be my creative process, continuous creation, recreation and deletion. The same kind of thing is how I've been writing my Story or even Events. 

    • 168 posts
    February 7, 2016 10:13 PM EST

    A lot of Skyrim build ideas I've had got scrapped because of either A: lack of art & pictures and not wanting to post a text wall. or B: because somebody else already had the idea and I didn't think I would have anything new to add.

    That first reason is why I really really want a way to screenshot or record videos, it's hard for me to find exactly the right artwork (through Google or otherwise) and screenshots are a way to shortcut without making it look terrible. Hence why my Aeromancer build for Skyrim used mostly screenshots because there wasn't any pictures I could find to properly illustrate the character. I would make my own art, but it would take a very long time and I can't draw very well with computer programs for art (because I haven't learned how to do that yet).

    An example of that second problem, I had a sort of historical knight build idea, but Tim Faroe beat me to it with his Knight build, it just blew what I had out of the water, so I just gave up. It wasn't exactly the same, but the theme was far too similar. I'd have gone back to it, I just don't have the passion and commitment to do that for that build.

    I did once have a couple builds planned for ESO, an Earth-elementalist Dragonknight and a Spear-centric Templar tank. Those got scrapped because ESO was an constantly changing MMO, not because I couldn't do it. I haven't returned to them simply because I'm not very interested in ESO anymore.

    There also was this one time I had an idea for a Skyrim story, but I didn't commit. Thought the premise was, a bit too mary-sue-ish. The plot was that me and irl friends, under alternate names, were thrown into Tamriel by dimensional gates or some crap, and as I was about to write it, I was like "WTH am I doing, nobody other than me would read this, its literally an author-insert". That was like a year ago I think, this was the first time I said anything of this to anyone. I no longer care, nor am I ashamed, I'd rather look back on it and laugh at myself.

    Oh, as far as strategies go, I don't know what to tell ya. I wish I had some myself.

    • 700 posts
    February 8, 2016 4:49 PM EST

    I hear ya, I've been through the same things. It's just a drag when your build gets ninjad like that. Really suck the wind out of your sails. And then if you do get an original idea, you can spend hours looking for pictures that fit which is just a heavy process of elimination and search-refining. It's exhausting! So yeah, making your own art is preferable for a number of reasons. Are you planning on starting your own art soon? You said "yet" so it sounds like you have plans to start.

    I've actually wondered about author-inserts for a while. I thought that maybe it was okay to insert yourself into the story since it's a character that's basically already written for you. All you have to do is describe yourself. I've never tried it so I don't know how it works, but I have written some characters that share strong parts of their personality with me or people close to me, so maybe it's about striking a balance? A more experienced writer than myself might be able to say. 

    • 168 posts
    February 8, 2016 5:28 PM EST

    Are you planning on starting your own art soon? You said "yet" so it sounds like you have plans to start.

    I would like to, but I haven't taken any classes or taught how to design art using computer programs or anything. The only art I can make is with good ol'-fashioned pencil & paper.    Soon™

    Regarding the whole author-insert thing, I thought it was too narcissistic or egotistical. Because Skyrim/TES stories are basically fanfiction, if it was about me nobody other than me would care, you know? Apparently when I was a kid, I was making up self-insert fanfics before I even knew the word fanfiction. Because I was young, at the time I thought it was fine and normal, but now I'm aware its narcissistic. I'm sure some people could write it really well, but to me, speaking from my own experience, its just a lazy shortcut to make up for the inability to make your own characters.

    • 700 posts
    February 8, 2016 6:57 PM EST
    Well hey, pencil and paper is a good start! Of course, that's coming from someone who's never upgraded from a mechanical pencil and Bic eraser, so my perspective hardly carries weight on that regard.

    I see what you're saying about author-inserts. Maybe it's a bit much to put your entire person into a story and write from that, but I've always found it easier and more fun to write characters that I relate to on some level. So, maybe like a best friend? Admirable qualities, interesting quirks, fierce passion, etc. What might be fun is writing yourself in as a supporting character or as a cameo. Ya know, Tarantino style.
  • Mr.
    • 763 posts
    February 8, 2016 7:30 PM EST

     I'm actually working on what I consider to be my most trying project, a story based on Skyrim. I knew it would be demanding, but I didn't know I would lose sleep over it - though that was actually really good and productive, a lot of great ideas flourished with my insomnia.

     It's an idea I've been tangoing with throughout the years, really. I think I decided I wanted to write a story back in 2014, but a lot has changed since then. It's nothing like it was, and from back then, only one full character has survived the test of time and still remains in my plans, and another minor character was then promoted to the "also staring" cast.

     Will I ditch this project? I don't think so, but it may be put on hold if it starts getting in the way of real life stuff. Thing is, I really like it, so if I don't actually get to make a full story, there will be nine short stories, divided in two "groups",  but still connected, and a bunch of RP profiles.

    • 700 posts
    February 8, 2016 7:53 PM EST

    My god, man, that sounds like a massive project! Once you embark on the ship that is the creative process, sleep tends to get left behind, unfortunately. But I'm in the same place as you. My most productive times were the times when I really should have been sleeping.

    Since you're not ditching it, do you know where you stand on it currently? That is, when will you know whether you'll attempt the long version or the broken up version? And is it a secret? Or do we get a teaser? Questions, questions, I know, but you got me interested now :P

    • 54 posts
    February 8, 2016 8:00 PM EST

    We must know!

  • Mr.
    • 763 posts
    February 10, 2016 2:35 PM EST

     I'm now in the process of playing through Skyrim and outlining the story as I go in brief resumes for each chapter - now in Chapter 3 Main (had a little trouble with this one).

     It's pretty much a secret, I will only unveil something about the story once I'm confident with what I have. I also need to learn how to make banners. That's a must, and I've been delaying it for far too long.  

     As for if I'll release the whole thing or not, the nine short stories are going to be needed in either case. They present a background for the main cast. What I'm trying to figure out is if I will stop there and tell the rest of the tale in profiles or make it into a full blog.

    • 40 posts
    February 10, 2016 7:14 PM EST

    Gather round, kids. Let me tell you about the insane month I had in November, in terms of Frost Moon.

    November of 2015 was National Novel Writing Month, and where I wrote the Zero-Draft for Legends of the Skaal: Frost Moon.

    I wrote 50,000 words in one month (which I am quite proud of!), and so far I have scrapped 95% of it! The plot was all wrong, the characters were behaving weirdly or they were just the wrong characters altogether, Reidar who was supposed to just be a minor character (and also only 13 years old) needed to be the protagonist alongside Kjeld, characters who were alive needed killing off, the story's starting location had to be moved to Solstheim and I had to throw out a lot of really cool ideas I had for a story that more or less fell apart.

    It was exhausting. It made me feel like a failure. There was a deep sense of 'What am I doing? Who was I kidding, thinking I could actually write a story that makes sense that people will want to read?'

    But, once the soul-rending misery and self-loathing subsided, I was able to get started on another draft of the story. This was better than the Zero-Draft, and I was starting to get a much clearer picture of what I wanted the story to be and the characters themselves, but I ended up scrapping that also.

    I am now on the Second-Draft, which is what you guys have been getting here on the vault. I finally feel like I have a great handle on the beginning of Kjeld & Reidar's epic tale! However, the beginning turned out nicely—I am now back in that miserable pit of doubt and self-loathing as I figure out the middle section. I'll be introducing some new characters, so I have this lingering terror that they won't be the right fit, and I'll end up posting the chapters only to decide four chapters later that some other characters work better. It's just self-induced insanity, I tell you!

    I may take a break this month to write a short story that won't drive me completely insane, just to give myself a confidence boost and hone my skills a bit more.

    Thanks for making this thread, Legion! It felt good to talk about this. ^^

    • 700 posts
    February 13, 2016 7:05 PM EST

    Dude. I can't even imagine what that must have been like to have to scrap  project that big. It hurts to think about. It took a lot of strength to come back from that and keep writing! Even better is that you came back from pretty much the quintessential downturn of the creative process where doubt and despair beat down your passion. It's not an easy place to be, for sure. 

    I'm glad to hear that the beginning went so well for you! I'm sure you'll pull yourself out of this pit though. You came back from scrapping 50,000 words, so you got this. 

    Interestingly enough, I was also thinking of writing a short story as break from my long story (which is inconsistent anyway), but I think I get where you're coming from. Writing short stories in between the long stories is just a good way to mix it up and do something noncommittal that you can just have a quick bit of fun with. 

    Glad you to hear talking about it made you feel better ^_^. Sometimes all we need is a good vent session to clear our heads. 

    • 700 posts
    February 13, 2016 7:07 PM EST

    Fair enough, Edd! I shall patiently await your secret and massive project. Just don't take toooo long, okay? I'm starting the hype train early on this one :P

    • 95 posts
    February 14, 2016 1:02 AM EST

    Oh Christ, my most trying project is ongoing. It is Those Whom the Gods Forsake; my blog. It started out as me, some kid who was bored during the summer, looking to pass time (which is why the quality has gotten exponentially better since chapter 1) and continues now, not even halfway of the first half in chapter 18. Writing something anyone would actually want to read is hard enough, but I guess I've managed to do it, as at least two or three people that I know of read it.

    I was going good with progress on it, but I was loosing a little sleep and decided I'd take December off.

    This was the worst mistake ever in my Vault writing career.

    When I came back, I just didn't have it in me anymore. I don't know where to begin again, my own character feels foreign again, I'm just lost in general. And what makes this worse is that people actually read it, so I can't just quit. I refuse to just leave the plot hanging forever. But what else can I do? I haven't lost interest, just... ability?

    UUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNHHHHH

    • 367 posts
    February 14, 2016 5:11 AM EST

    The hardest challenge for me with no doubt has been and currently still is U.O.T.W.

    You see, I started writing this in 2012 Dec, yes that’s old news. BUT, since I posted my first chapter on the blog my writing has improved drastically. From 2012 to 2015 when I really started posting my chapters on the blog I had written near 300 chapters.

    The trouble is that now I face the task of having to edit every single one as the writing is such a poor quality that I cannot bring myself to post them. I’m currently editing chapter 106 which was originally chapter 79 but due to my better writing skills, I’ve increased the word count and the amount of new content in these chapters.

    I am STILL faced with no less than 218 chapters which require heavy editing before I can post them. I hope to catch up this year but realistically I will probably do so in 2017. Only then can I continue the story.

    Sometimes facing the amount of editing I need to do drives me crazy. Other times I look at the differences and smile, knowing what I post is my best work.

    • 700 posts
    February 15, 2016 1:26 PM EST

    Damn, Accursed, I'm sorry to hear. I'm sure you still have the ability though! Maybe I'm amateur or idealistic enough to think so, but if you really enjoyed writing it and you noticed your skill improve exponentially over just a few months, the I believe you still have that skill. Maybe it's just a matter of easing back into it? Writing a bit every day and going through double-digit revisions. I know people say that the hardest part of writing is actually getting started, so I imagine that applies to some to degree to getting re-started. Just don't give up! If you're anything like the writers I know, you have a deep-seated stubborn refusal to give up on a project, even if it does take you a little bit to get back to it. 

    • 215 posts
    February 15, 2016 1:34 PM EST

    Sometimes taking time off causes this. Just get your feet wet a little at a time. Maybe take that character and do an offshoot "short story" where you focus on one event in his life or his past. Maybe this will help you reconnect with him for the main ongoing story. Plus it would add some depth to him that you could explore in reconnecting. Good luck finding him again.

    • 700 posts
    February 15, 2016 1:42 PM EST

    Wow, I had  no idea that you were editing each chapter so heavily. That's quite a hefty task, but an impressive one! I always knew UOTW was a labor of love, but I guess I didn't realize just by how much. I'm glad to know it's not all bad though, that you can look at it and feel good about posting your best. It's especially good hear knowing that every creator is his or her own worst critic in the end. A task as large as yours would cause a lot of other writers to falter. I know I couldn't do it! So for what it's worth, I think what you're doing is a really admirable. 

    • 700 posts
    February 15, 2016 2:07 PM EST

    I suppose it’s only fair that I answer my own question one of these days, so I can say a little on this. Honestly, most of my struggles with the creative process come down to two things: either I create something and throw it out, or I create something and take my dear sweet time doing so due to a variety of reasons.

    I don’t throw things out much, luckily. The most recent example is a story that I actually threw out for AMOST. I had written about 1500 words and didn’t plan on exceeding 3000, but every time I read it, I just hated it. Nothing seemed to click. It was a comedic piece, and the humor came to me naturally enough, but it just wasn’t interesting. I’d like to do something with the same tone soon; I just have to figure out a concise plot that doesn’t overshadow the humor by being a complete drag.

    As for taking my time with things, I think that just comes down to how my time needs to be managed IRL. My current story is about as inconsistent as a story can be in chapter length and post times, but I do intend to finish it. Non-story creations are where things get the most frustrating for me. I really enjoy the design portion of writing builds, though you wouldn’t be able to tell if you talk to me while I’m doing it. Sometimes I spend an entire day creating something that gets scrapped the next day. The number of drafts I have for each perk spread, title, page break, and whatever else I put into a build is in the double digits, and opening up folders of past projects acts as a very poignant reminder of how wrong things can go. But it’s also a testament to my stubborn persistence, so I can’t be too mad.

    Even during the lowest downswings of the creative process when I have to scrap and change and constantly update, when part of my mind is kicking and screaming and trying to end the misery…I do still enjoy it, even if I only reluctantly admit it in the end. 

    • 184 posts
    February 16, 2016 12:51 PM EST

    Awww man. Even though I had esoteric knowledge of your struggles, hearing it again is making me cringe.  I really sympathise as I have had a few heart-breaking experiences of my own with Dragon War Encore. I'm just really glad you were able to extract something out of the original effort with which you were happy.

    I can't believe Reidar was going to be so young! But he still acts like an ostentatious adolescent, so the boy in him is not all gone.