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Paladins: Why Turn Undead?

    • 95 posts
    May 8, 2015 1:30 AM EDT

    So, from what I noticed on a lot of Paladin Builds, a lot of them use the spell or effect that will "Turn Undead." I've always thought that "Fear" was stronger than any "Turn Undead" spell.

    I may not sound sane here, but bare with me...

    "Fear" has a higher level effect in the long run, even for Enchanting. Though it requires more perks. It would also better suit a Vampire-turned Paladin.

    Fear effect: Aspect of Terror, Kindred Mage and/or Animage, Master of the Mind, Necromage, Champion of the Night, Dual Casting.

    Turn Undead: Necromage.

    Though you spend more perks, you gain more power. With the right perks, an Apprentice level "Fear" spell will affect a level 39 Vampire, where as the Expert level "Turn Greater Undead will only effect up to 31. A dual-casted Fear will be even stronger, affecting an undead at level 87 (WWAAAAAAYYYY over the cap.)

    As far as enchanted items goes: I can only speak for The Pale Blade here: With all the perks listed above for Illusion: The Pale Blade was affecting undead that were HIGHER levels than myself, instead of lower.

    So please tell me... Why the obsession with "Turn Undead?" Other than RP of course, as I can understand the entire "Holy Magic" aspect. BUT WHY? HELP ME UNDERSTAND THE OTHER REASON WHY?

    • 622 posts
    May 8, 2015 1:39 AM EDT

    Because Illusion is the art of altering the mind of men and can be seen asĀ evil. Paladins and warriors use Turn undead as it only affects Undead. Strictly RP and for people who don;t use Illusion

    • 457 posts
    May 8, 2015 1:39 AM EDT
    Frankly, I hate them both... now I gotta go chase 'em down before they bring every other undead denizen in the whole dungeon down around my ears. That, and running after a Restless draugr taking swipes here and there at its back is degrading to both the draugr AND me; it doesn't feel very paladin-y at all (although, as you say, for RP Turn Undead does have a righteous feel to it).
    • 457 posts
    May 8, 2015 1:45 AM EDT
    Oh, and Turn Undead enchantments rake in a TON of Septims for resale xD
    • 95 posts
    May 8, 2015 1:56 AM EDT

    Forgive me if I do not make sense here:

    Draugur are Undead, but are just walking corpses of Men/Mer.

    Vampires are people infected with a disease that makes them Undead.

    Strip the "Undead" identity out, they are both Men/Mer. They are people.

    Turn Undead is still "altering the mind of men". So that basically tells me that "Turn Undead" would fall under the category of evil as well?

    So "Undead" is it's own race, yet it ends up having two spell categories that can affect them, but the stronger one is considered "Unholy" ????

    Still having troubles...

    • 95 posts
    May 8, 2015 1:56 AM EDT

    That is a fair point. "Profit."

    • 179 posts
    May 8, 2015 2:58 AM EDT

    In the eyes of a Paladin, the undead are no longer human (or Elven, Argonian, etc. as the case may be) and thus don't deserve the same consideration that the living do.

    • 179 posts
    May 8, 2015 3:02 AM EDT

    The answer is simple from a gameplay perspective. Illusion spells require the Master of the Mind perk, which itself requires 90 Illusion skill and five perks, to work on undead. Turn Undead spells have no such requirements.

    • 622 posts
    May 8, 2015 4:23 AM EDT

    ^ What he said.

    • 1483 posts
    May 8, 2015 11:00 AM EDT

    1) Turn Undead has an additional stagger effect

    2) Leveling Restoration does not require using mind-altering spells on the living (or muffling footsteps which is not really a Paladin type of spell IMO).

    • 30 posts
    May 8, 2015 7:17 PM EDT
    I gotta agree with overhate here. The problem with the paladin archetype is that it's often seen as a cleric or holy warrior or maybe even holy priest turned warrior.

    Due to this rp nature of the class, d&d as well as many other games incorporated buffing stats of it's own and others around the paladin as one of the most central core mechanics of the class.

    In skyrim though, this buffing mechanic seems to be only available on illusion. Self buffs aren't even achieved till call to arms spell, which is a master level spell I think plus and aoe to boot.

    Whilst turn undead spells do cause irritation to any paladin archetype or just in general, the fact that it "turns the undead" will also limit it as a an illusion spell that works against the undead potion of any man and mer, living or not that just affects the undead sub species tagged along to the main race.

    So in essence, to run s successful pure paladin character, not only just one be versed in rsstoration and illusion but also in weaponry like 1 handed and/or 2 handed skills.

    Also, since soul trap send the souls to the ideal masters once the soul gem it's trapped in has been depleted, it can be seen as a banishment mechanic of vengeful nature (sort of like a retribution paladin from wow), sending unworthy souls for eternal torment instead of subjecting to rebirth in arkay's cycle.