Forums » Elder Scrolls

Would Firearms and Gadgets Break Immersion?

    • 134 posts
    March 31, 2015 3:14 PM EDT

    Some will have heard of the Project Flintlock mod; it basically adds colonial-style rifles, blunderbusses and grenade launchers to the game using the crossbow mechanics and different ammunition types. Without a doubt, these are pretty cool and work well (just avoid the overpowered ammunition variants).

    However, a question arises; could guns and gadgets of this sort ever fit into the Elder Scrolls? Or are they too advanced to blend with the medieval culture? Would they hyper-modernise Tamriel into the next installment in the Battlefield franchise? Will they try to sell us battle packs in that too?

    Anyhow, it'd be great to get opinions on this, to support or counter the FPS/TPS genre revolutionaries.

    Some relevant mods: Project Flintlock, Mercenary War-GearDwemer Traps/Arrows

    • 134 posts
    March 31, 2015 3:24 PM EDT

    To kick this off;

    I'd personally accept colonial rifles (and possibly blunderbusses, but nothing else), since they have a long reload time which would balance the high power and stagger. From a lore-related perspective, I would also have the aforementioned firearms as since scholars have been snooping around for eras, someone must have at least figured that an explosive substance in one end of a tube could shoot something out the other. Surely Dwemer schematics must exist for weapons even more powerful than that? Consider the harquebuses from the Wheels of Lull- they're fully explained and fit right in lore-wise without breaking immersion, and shoot lasers.

    • 4 posts
    March 31, 2015 3:26 PM EDT

    I dont think it would break immersion.  I mean, flintlock and blackpowder weapons existed in the real world for hundreds of years.  As it was, bows remained the go to weapon long after firearms came in existence because they were cheaper, more reliable and faster to shoot. 

    I personally would love to see them added.  Give them the same trade offs as bows and cross bows-in fact making the bow, crossbow, flintlock trifecta would be like the sword,axe mace one for melee. Bows are fast but relatively low powered, crossbows are middle of the road and flintlocks are powerhouses that take forever to reload.    

    • 134 posts
    March 31, 2015 3:36 PM EDT

    Definitely agreed there - I didn't consider making a skill-based trilogy out of them. Perhaps they could have varying bash damage too, with rifles doing the most via bayonets, though this could be overcomplicating the concept.

    • 180 posts
    March 31, 2015 3:56 PM EDT

    I think mechanically, firearms are just too far advanced. There may have been some developed by the dwemer, but there would be so few surviving examples that seeing them commonly would never happen. 

    I do think that they could work if they were powered by magic instead. Using magic to launch a physical object at high speeds.In that case I think it is entirely possible. 

  • March 31, 2015 4:11 PM EDT

    I'm with Twisted. A magic-powered, telekinesis-based firearm might work, and on that subject I'd fully support magic-based gadgets and gizmos. Throwing Weapons has long since introduced alchemy and dwemer "grenades" which work both in-lore and don't break the character of TES, which I think a pistol would. The slew of mods that add magical arrows, sneaky tools, and trap-making, grenade-hurling inventions can go either way, but they have to work with the established lore and character of TES and here, magic is far more prevalent than scientific study.

    • 134 posts
    March 31, 2015 4:23 PM EDT

    Fair enough, but surely men and mer could have produced simple gunpowder designs in the absence of the dwarves? There's evidence of Chinese handguns as far back as the 1200's, for comparison, and Tamriel had 4+ eras of research time.

    I get what you mean, though. The idea of launching objects automagically sounds both awesome and intriguing; I'm now placing the telekinisis-cannon as my second favourite projectile launcher behind the Saints Row 4 dubstep gun.

    • 180 posts
    March 31, 2015 4:31 PM EDT

    I think the reason is because of the culture. The dwemer were very different from other races in that they put their faith in machines rather than magic. There just isn't that desire or possibly even the idea that someone could create a device which uses controlled explosions to accurately fire projectiles. The idea that someone could use magic to fire an object is much more common place. 

    • 134 posts
    March 31, 2015 4:32 PM EDT

    Well, you and Twisted have convinced me. I'll still be using a poisoned rifle with the PF mod (due to way too many hours on AC Rogue), but I'll keep that as a one-off with a homemade lore explanation and focus on magical technology in the future.

    While I'm here, what do you two think about the harquebuses in Wheels of Lull? Of course the lore of Lull-Mor isn't cannon, but it's all based on the Clockwork City, so there must be some truth behind that and therefore a possibility of advanced weaponry.

    Edit: Scratch that. They seem to fire magical shots, so my point's irrelevant.

    • 134 posts
    March 31, 2015 4:39 PM EDT

    Greatly put, I can see now why the other races wouldn't have bothered with the whole idea, especially since bows and the largely-rare crossbows were available anyway and didn't need replacing.

    It just seems strange that with the availability of functional (and abandoned) Dwemer machinery and weapons, none of the other races have tried to salvage and adopt them into their cultures. Maybe due to the constant automaton threat in the ruins.

    • 50 posts
    March 31, 2015 5:53 PM EDT
    If they were to exist in he world of Skyrim, my lore excuse would be Dagon sent them down to his followers to cause havoc. Oh, how I love the excuses I can make with daedra.
    • 1483 posts
    March 31, 2015 6:13 PM EDT

    The Dwemer technology is a mystery to everyone. People don't even know how to create the same alloy they used. To get Dwemer metal people melt their junk. Other races of Tamriel are too far behind technologically. Something to consider though, Chimer fought the Dwemer equally without technological inventions. Magic in TES is as (if not more) powerful as technology. It is also easier accessible since everything on Nirn is inherently magical and every person has some magical potential.

    • 13 posts
    March 31, 2015 6:21 PM EDT

    Well as far as working firearms into the lore of Elder Scrolls, your first possible answer is right there. The Elder Scrolls themselves. The knowledge contained in those things is often chaotic, sometimes precise, but nobody really knows when or where that info comes from. I think Hermaeus Mora was jealous of them in fact. I think the Black Books are his attempt to out shine or replace the Scrolls by his own hand. Considering too that it says some of those Black Books are written in the future it is all to easy to assume that the understanding of firearms can trickle into the world.

    With that said I don't want to see fully automatic guns. I don't want rocket launchers. Grenades could work, just not with a launcher mind you. I think the idea of a single fire sniper rifle would be awesome. Long reload time so that you have to make that shot count.

    Gadgets. Yes please. I want a grapple hook. Not like Batman so don't freak out. I mean a real grapple hook that you have to wind up and throw so that it can't do insane distance grapples. Make different versions of it that act differently. The standard one might not be able to hand a lot of strain or weight for instance. Another my have a chain rather than a rope. Its not quiet to use, but can withstand massive strain, not to mention if its used in a fight it can do some damage. Yes fighting with a grapple could be awesome in the off hand. Used single handed it could be like a whip or used to hook and drag an enemy towards you, sort of like a reverse stagger. If wielded in both hands you get more options such as a block, assuming you have the chain version, along with slashing with the grapple and power attack such as wide swings for keeping groups at a distance. Also the grapple could be used to lower yourself from high places with a restriction of how much rope or chain do you have. So the question of how much to carry comes into play. The more rope or chain you have to use, the less treasure you can lug around.

    I'd also love to see a blowgun for poison delivery and a wider selection of poisons. Perhaps some with funny effects like puking or uncontrollable bowel movements that would send guards scurrying from their posts.

  • March 31, 2015 6:35 PM EDT

    As far as dart-gun, I'm using a mod right now that's basically a high-fire, 0 damage crossbow. Poison Dart Gun. It's pretty effective.

    • 13 posts
    March 31, 2015 7:45 PM EDT

    Alas I play on the 360 so such wonders as mods are only the most doubted legends in my Skyrim world. lol

    • 50 posts
    March 31, 2015 9:59 PM EDT
    Not like Batman? :(
    • 13 posts
    March 31, 2015 10:29 PM EDT

    Oh...um....Well you see...uhhh...I had no idea that your name...What I meant to say was....uh.....HEY LOOK A NAKED DRAGON!!

    ~runs away~

    • 55 posts
    April 1, 2015 2:53 AM EDT

    For me, firearms have no Place in the ES period. We have fallout for that. Now different poisons and a blowgun/blowpipe as a delivery system i could get behind. But i would rather have more fleshed out routines like eating drinking for npcs(and poisoning those Things) than guns.

    • 134 posts
    April 1, 2015 5:47 AM EDT

    Because they're cool...?

    *cries at lack of counter-argument*

    • 116 posts
    April 1, 2015 7:22 AM EDT
    Fire arms and grenades/explosives would make perfect sense in TES lore. It wouldnt be hard for me to imagine the Dwemer having developed this type of technology. While I can see this possible, finding firearms would be incredibly rare in my opinion, and finding ammunition that will fire would be even more rare. But just imagine finding a stash of functional dwemer grenades and the devastation you could cause with them.

    And what was said about the Elder Scrolls or Mora's black books containing information about that technology is also plausible...especially if you've heard the "Tamriel is set in the far future after the Fallout series..." Theories that could make sense. That would make the Elder Scrolls part of a super computer/AI system from before the fall of mankind and Dragons would just be heavily mutated and evolved cross breads between geckos and pigeons........
    • 116 posts
    April 1, 2015 7:24 AM EDT
    Lol cross breads...
    Cross breeds I meant, silly me
    • 55 posts
    April 1, 2015 7:51 AM EDT

    what a horrible horrible thought

    • 134 posts
    April 1, 2015 8:43 AM EDT

    Oh no, matrix Alduin is attacking Solitude! 

    • 1441 posts
    April 1, 2015 12:09 PM EDT

    Well, there were rifles of a sort, if memory serves, in Medieval times, they sucked though and were unreliable. Still, Dwemer based grenades and whatnot, a grappiling hook and the like would work

    • 116 posts
    April 3, 2015 12:53 PM EDT
    Hahahah that's so awesome