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My 2 Cents - Beware of opinions and an Elven Sympathiser!!!

    • 34 posts
    December 11, 2013 10:30 PM EST

    I know there are plenty of discussions out there debating the Altmeri Dominion and Talos worship and other such things in general, and even I myself am sick of seeing these arguments going back and forth, with one post making you think "Hey, that sounds right" but then the next post making you think "Huh, that sounds about right as well". 

    But I just want to get my personal opinion out there, because there seems to be a lack of Altmeri Dominion sympathisers on this site. Also I will admit to the fact that there are gaps in my knowledge of the lore, I've taken what I learned playing Skyrim and Oblivion, which is not everything. But this is what I see to have happened. Please keep that in mind, and tell me of anything I may have wrong.

    First of all I can admit that the way they are enforcing the ban of Talos worship is wrong. Dragging people off in the night, shoot first ask questions later types of attitudes, that's just not fair. But then I compare that to what this supposed Talos person did and well... it kind of pales in comparison. It's still wrong, but what Talos seems to have done, from the eyes of the Altmeri Dominion, is wrong-er. 

    So this human guy barges into your house screaming "this house is now mine I don't care about your opinions" and then he kills all the residents of that house, sits on the chair in front of the fire, and thinks to himself "hmmm, one house it not enough. and the people that lived here were ugly, I hate them, I want to kill them all and take all their houses. good idea!!!" and he does just that. Barges into homes, kills the families, the working man, the single mother, the simple babe, all for no reason the occupants of this house can see. But some of them he thinks "huh, you could be useful, I will kill everyone you love and then you will do my bidding" and he begins to take slaves. (I heard/read that he did this, but I may be wrong)

    Meanwhile other humans are enthralled by his charming personality, the way he can swing his axe, and think "this guy is pretty cool, let's do what he's doing" and so they copy him, looking to him as a leader and an overall awesome guy, because hey! He's killed a bunch of people who aren't human! And survived! Cool, right? So they follow him in droves, do what he does, kill and rape and enslave the elves who were there first. Who did nothing(?) to anger this one dude, this dude who decided he hated them and then tried to kill them ALL, and declare that what they once owned was now his because he wanted it. 

    And the elves that survive this regroup, burning with hatred for this one man who killed thousands, if not millions of their kind, of their families, and then the humans have the audacity to start worshipping this man as a god, a god equal to the Eight. This mass murderer, this man who committed genocide, they now considered him a god. 

    I would be hateful too. 

    And so with the war with the Empire coming to a close with the treaty, they say, "please stop the worship of this Talos dude, who by the way, killed all our people" and the Empire agrees, even if they don't really want to. But they agree, and they sign, and that's that. 

    Then a few years later the Nords start kicking up a fuss. Especially this Ulfric dude. "Damn elves stopping me from worshipping who I believe to be a god! What have we ever done to deserve this?" And then he begins fighting back.

    And the Thalmor and Altmeri Dominion go "This can't go on. This murderer god can't be worshipped, because he can't be a god, he murdered our people in cold blood" and so they begin to strengthen their presence in Skyrim, to crack down on the worshippers, because it's now against Imperial law, and their own law, so worship him. (Although the way the do this is horrible, but it's also what happened to them too, in some ways)

    And then Ulfric goes "look at these elves, murdering our kind because they want us to stop worshipping our god, that sucks and so now we can start a war with those Imperial milk drinkers who are obviously in love with them, because they can't murder us! That's cruel!" Stormcloak rebellion ahoy! 

    From that I can sympathise with the Altmeri Dominion. I can see why they hate Talos and his worship. Can't you? 

    Oh, also, I resent the way some people here look at the Altmeri as man-hating killers who want to take over the world. I read a post somewhere that a user named Vix wrote (I think?) and I pretty much agree with that. They do believe they are better than man, but they aren't trying to kill off all man and take over the world. They want to go back to where it was safe and peaceful and to do that they believe if they were in control they could do that. They, understandably, believe man to be walking, talking chaos, butchering their plans (and their people *cough* Talos *cough*) and they think that if they were in control, they would put a stop to that chaos, and maybe even things out a little. It was a while ago that I read that post but that's what I got from it. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

    So this is a jumbled mess and I hate that I can't really articulate my beliefs well but please forgive me for that and try to understand both my opinion, the standing of the Dominion, and this clusterfuck bunch of thoughts put into words. Eh.

  • December 11, 2013 10:37 PM EST

    • 34 posts
    December 11, 2013 10:41 PM EST

    Exactly. :)

  • December 11, 2013 10:43 PM EST

    It's wrong, but hey. Your opinion. 

    • 34 posts
    December 11, 2013 10:45 PM EST

    If there is anything that's wrong lore-based, then I encourage you to educate me. If it's wrong because it differs from your personal opinion, I won't argue about that, but I am interested to see what your opinion is, if you're willing to give it.

    • 966 posts
    December 11, 2013 10:48 PM EST

    Both sides hate eachother, both sides have good reasons. Both sides want to rule, both sides have equal right to do so. There are only 2 things that can happen: One side beats the other. Or there's an external threat on wich both sides agree is a bigger problem.

    • 34 posts
    December 11, 2013 10:53 PM EST

    You can tell what side I want to win ^.^

    • 185 posts
    December 11, 2013 10:54 PM EST

    Oh god, that makes sense...

    I feel it, i'm starting to support the dominion...

    ...Nah,just kidding, I still hate them 

    I just can't like the Dominion and their arrogant manners (I don't care about Talos )

    • 25 posts
    December 11, 2013 10:56 PM EST

    Altmer live to be 1000 years old right? The 3rd era began with the conquest of the Summerset Isles. It lasted 433 years. And the 4th era has lasted 201-202 years so far. What does this mean? There are Altmer that still alive that remember what the Numdium did, what Tiber Septim did. To men the events are history, to the Altmer? They're memories. The Thalmor are xenophobic and pretty hateful there is no doubt, they even hate fellow mer in that sense I cannot justify their actions or call them moral. I can however understand and sympathize with the position of the Altmer. Between the conquest of Tiber Septim and the fall of the Crystal Tower the Altmer have lost a piece of their identity and this has been at the behest of man. A race that the Altmer consider to be children and immature is it any wonder that a race living for 1000 years wishes to guide men after all that chaos that they have wrought?

  • December 11, 2013 10:56 PM EST

    In respect to the lore, I think your explanation for tiber septims reasons were a bit exaggerated. Unifying a continent to bring peace from the fighting, and taking peoples homes because they're there are different. In regards to my opinion. I think the Thalmor just want to push Men around. I think, given the chance, they'd erase Man. I think they're hypocrites for not allowing men to worship talos based on the fact that he was once a mortal man, while the Altmer have ancestor elves in their pantheon. Hypocritical if you ask me. 

    They have no proof that Elves are descended from the Divines, just their traditions. Men, in their traditions, call Kynareth "mother", at least the Nords do. They're just as descended from the Divines as the Elves are according to tradition. 

    I think the elves need to be brought down a couple of notches. 

  • December 11, 2013 10:59 PM EST

    Sounds like their ego got damaged. They have a monster chip on their shoulder.

    • 34 posts
    December 11, 2013 10:59 PM EST

    I understand, even I get annoyed at how up themselves they can be. 

    I have your view against the Nords and/or Stormcloaks. Playing as a Nord Stormcloak (my first and last) made me see what they go through first hand, but I still can't bring myself to like them and excuse them.

    • 34 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:01 PM EST

    Thank you for putting so beautifully what I was trying, and probably failing, to say.

  • December 11, 2013 11:03 PM EST

    Why not? They're basically just like the Thalmor. Basically. 

    • 25 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:04 PM EST

    You would agree with me that someone who is 30 is more mature than someone who is 10 correct?

    • 34 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:05 PM EST

    I see. Arguments like these, with who is right and who is wrong, seem to go around in circles. As Alduin said, both have been wronged and have done wrong. Both have their reasons to be right. We just seem to view these reasons differently. 

    But thank you for explaining.

    • 185 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:05 PM EST

    My first character killed all the stormcloaks guards because of the guilty of supporting the wrong side 

  • December 11, 2013 11:10 PM EST

    I know where you're going with this. But, Men go through their life faster then Elves. They learn life lessons faster. The Thalmor could have just as easily been a human or a beast race. They need to calm down. 

     Look at the Thalmor's actions, and look at the Stormcloak's actions. 

    Xenophobic

    Racist

    Fighting against "tyranny" 

    Both are trying to get back their self respect and dignity. 

    The only difference is the ears, man. 

    • 34 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:10 PM EST

    I will dispute this. Age does not create maturity, experiences do.

    • 91 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:12 PM EST

    Ok first I'd like to set things straight on the "A time that was more peaceful" thing. No it was not more peaceful before Talos and his empire in fact the world was constantly in chaos and war. Talos, whether you agree with his methods or not, brought peace for the first time in a millennium with the rise of his empire. Also the elves didn't just say "Hey dudes can you stop worshiping Talos please?" they flat out said if the Empire didn't agree to that (among other things) they would continue the war and wipe out the entire Empire.

    Now that that is out of the way I'll get to the more opinionated parts of my argument. First off the Altmer weren't the only people that got the shit kicked out of them by the Empire. The Redguard also had a long and bloody war with the Empire before agreeing to join on their own terms. Second while Talos may not have intended his acts to be this noble (I believe he did) his wars did in fact have very good outcomes for Tamriel. Peace, prosperity, etc. were all felt under his rule (well... after all the fighting stopped anyway). Finally I'd like to point out that Talos did in fact become a god. You can debate whether or not he's an Aedra, but he is divine. This was proven fact during the Knights of the Nine in Oblivion in which you need the blood of a god. And guess who's blood you use? That's right Talos' blood which works perfectly because he is actually a god.

    The Aldmeri Dominion are just a bunch of cry babies that think they should get their way because their ancestors were treated badly. How is treating others badly any better than what happened to your ancestors? Do you really think that being a dick to people that had absolutely nothing to do with what happened all those years ago is fair and just? I for one think the Aldmeri Dominion's ancestors would be appalled by their descendant's actions. Two wrongs don't make a right.

  • December 11, 2013 11:12 PM EST

    Thank you. 

    • 91 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:13 PM EST

    Actually the life span of elves is fuzzy in Elder Scrolls lore, but most people I've talked to agree that the lifespan of an average elf is probably closer to 500 years at most with most living to be about 250. Only magically extended lifespans of VERY powerful wizards would be nearly 1000 years.

  • December 11, 2013 11:13 PM EST

    They're not acting very mature are they. 

    • 708 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:19 PM EST

    From "The Real Barenziah, Book II"

    "Elves live for a very long time." Katisha's face briefly wore the envious, wistful look humans got when contemplating the thousand-year lifespan Elves had been granted by the gods. True, few ever actually lived that long as disease and violence took their respective tolls. But they could.

    • 34 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:26 PM EST

    I may have chosen the wrong words in my argument, but I do see what you're saying. 

    But surely you can admit that if someone started coming into your country and killing all your people, friends and family included, you would at least be a little angry, and would hate those who did this and supported it. 

    Because I think the elves see the support of the god Talos as the support of his actions. But, again, my opinion, and I could be wrong.