Forums » Elder Scrolls

• Jack

  

  • 11 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 3:20 PM EDT

  Is this guild evil or does it help the world? I think they are unjust and should be executed but what do you think?
• Alfred Perez

  

  • 47 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 3:32 PM EDT

  It's neutral it kills people to get paid that's it if the pay is good they take it.
• Iceman

  

  • 69 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 3:59 PM EDT

  In Skyrim, they're straight up bad. And not bad as in they're evil, but as in they're bad. But yes, they are evil.

• Slashy McSplatter

  

  • 39 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 4:07 PM EDT

  This question's answer depends on perspective.  There is no right or wrong, good or evil...only the perceptions of the transgressor and the witness.

  Therefore, I believe that the Dark Brotherhood is neutral.  They don't care about the morality of the deed, only the gain from said deed.  Those witnessing the act have another perspective, but that is irrelevent to good or evil.

  I don't know John Doe walking down the street, but I would scrape his heart out with a dirty spoon if that is what I believed was the right thing to do according to my moral compass.  Those witnessing my transgression may percieve my actions as evil or wrong and impose their will on me.

  The point is this...if electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

  Steps off the soap box...

• Fernando Avilés

  

  • 1 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 4:17 PM EDT

  I think the Dark Brotherhood isn´t evil per sè, and certainly they aren´t good guys. They kill anyone that other person wants dead. Who is baddest then? The killer, or the one that make use of the Black Sacrament??

• Premier Eden

  

  • 152 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 4:30 PM EDT

  The Dark Brotherhood is a neutral entity because they represent Sithis, Chaos, which is neutral unto itself, for chaos is change. Yes, they do kill people, but not everyone they kill is some innocent bystander (case in point DB quest in Skyrim where you kill the guy living in the Dwemer ruin)

• Huzke Truthseeker

  

  • 13 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 5:54 PM EDT

  Seems pretty clear to me that they're evil.  They're a cult, they torture people, and they enjoy murder no matter who it is.  Lucian even tells you that you should find a random person to murder just to stay sharp.  Seems pretty evil to me.

  "They kill anyone that other person wants dead. Who is baddest then? The killer, or the one that make use of the Black Sacrament??"

  Both.  If someone hires a hitman to kill someone they both end up going to prison if they're caught, for example.

  This is my opinion, of course.

• Deleted Member

  
   

  August 12, 2013 6:10 PM EDT

  They're psychotic murders, so what do you think? 

• Miraak

  

  • 167 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 6:13 PM EDT

  I don't care what they represent. No matter what, in my book, murder is never the answer.

• Calo

  

  • 116 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 9:03 PM EDT

  The Dark Brotherhood is neither good nor evil, they are Chaos. Chaos in itself is neutral, not caring for good or evil.

• PFD2

  

  • 147 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 9:06 PM EDT

  This isn't even a hard question, they are evil, they worship a woman who killed 5 of her children for a god, and the people they kill sometimes aren't innocent, but a lot are.

• Iceman

  

  • 69 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 9:19 PM EDT

  Re-doing my answer, I believe that the Dark Brotherhood isn't fully evil. They have a set of rules, honor, and they don't kill for the fun of it. In one DB quest in Oblivion you help a person get out of debt by tricking his death. That's more of a good thing so I believe them to be neutral.

• Jack

  

  • 11 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 9:34 PM EDT

  i agree sometimes they do good sometimes

• Kyrielle Atrinati

  

  • 291 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 10:03 PM EDT

  I'm not sure that I'd call them evil, but I would consider them disturbingly obsessed with death in a way that borders on psychotic.  This is speaking from the culture of the guild itself.  I'm sure originally, it wasn't like that, given the Dark Brotherhood formed as a splinter group from the Morag Tong.

  The Morag Tong functions very differently from the Dark Brotherhood, even though they are both guilds of assassins.  The Morag Tong's primary function is to act as hired hitmen for anyone willing to pay them gold and name a target.  Their secondary function is to act as Morrowind's legal executioners, which is normally a function regulated to the local guard.  Furthermore, due to their ability to act as hitmen, they prevent all out war from occurring between the Great Houses.

  However, what I find most interesting is that every Morag Tong assassination must result in the assassin allowing themselves to be taken in by the legal system, i.e. surrender to law enforcement.  This ensures that the general populace still understands that murder is punishable by imprisonment and death, while allowing for assassinations to occur (as a necessary part of culling house conflicts).  It also supports the province's legal system, allowing it the appropriate authority it needs.

  The Dark Brotherhood, on the other hand, operates largely in an unchecked manner given their unsanctioned nature.  Since it remains unsanctioned, its movements are rarely known and those recruited are not screened.  At all.  This ensures that the DB tends to acquire assassins that are mentally unstable and can easily be encouraged to seek out "bonuses", which often involve killing people who were not the target and are, in essence, innocent bystanders.  Not only does the Brotherhood encourage mentally unstable members, but simply placing a contract on a person requires the employer to commit heinous acts by committing the Black Sacrament.

• Maximus

  

  • 2 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 10:29 PM EDT

  While do agree that they are neutral, in the end I think it really all boils down to who the current Listener of the Dark Brotherhood is or if they even have a listener. In the Skyrim when you encounter the DB they are sans listener, and that coupled with Astrid's rather cynical view of things makes them come off as more evil in contrast to the DB in Oblivion who had a listener, speakers, & the Black Hand to maintain the hierarchy & traditions of the organization. 

  Kyrielle also has a good point tho, entry/recruitment into the DB is far less strenuous than the Morag Tong, allowing for a more... colorful array of members in the DB, thus distorting their neutral status.

• Rockman

  

  • 3 posts
   

  August 12, 2013 11:52 PM EDT

  And a stopped clock is right twice a day.

  At best they are tools. If the Black Sacrament was somehow replaced by the Death Note, and it allowed anyone in Tamriel to kill anyone else by performing the ritual and burning the required amount of money... the result would be an amoral weapon that can only be used to kill people. Such a ritual might not be evil itself per se but it would still be dangerous and potentially destructive to any sort of civilization. If some rich jackoff somewhere can anonymously kill the Emperor by spending X million septims worth of gems, or kill any other person he wants with a proportionately smaller cost, how could you expect a society to function?

  That example assumes the Black Sacrement was a perfectly efficient and emotionless force of magic. The Dark Brotherhood as we know it are made up of assassins who are all at best flawed people and at worse psychotic and unrepentant murderers. Hell, they often have to kill innocent bystanders in order to get at their real target.

  Finally, I think lore has it that the victims of the Dark Brotherhood are automatically deprived of their normal afterlives due to their connection to Sithis. So they are by definition worse in an ethical sense than than an equally skilled group of assassins would be. Heck, I'm pretty sure condemning your victims immoral souls to annihilation is even worse than condemning them to whatever torments Molag Bal does... I mean, if a bunch of vampires became assassins and in turn turned all their victims into vampires before sacrificing them to Molag Bal... the result would be incredibly evil but at least their victims would have an afterlife of sorts.

  So yeah, I'm saying the Dark Brotherhood is evil and to those who say that they are "neutral" ... well that just means that it is a morally neutral act to kill members of the Dark Brotherhood. They're like vicious dogs, they like ripping into people and its a pretty instinctive reaction to either fear them or want them dead... unless you're the guy who sics them on other people in which case you see them as useful tools.