Forums » Elder Scrolls

Blades v. Greybeards (Spoilers)

    • 21 posts
    December 19, 2011 10:50 AM EST

    If you haven't played through the main quest, skip this post.  I'm not really invoking any huge spoilers, but there are some interesting twists during the main quest that might be spoiled if you haven't pushed through the main questline much.

    So...for those of you who have completed the main quest, what did you do about Paarthunax?  Did you side with the Blades or the Greybeards?  For me it was a no-brainer, on a number of different levels.  Of course I'm not going to kill Paarthunax!  The Blades can go jump in a lake. 

    In terms of lore:  Alduin would've already destroyed the world long ago if Paarthunax hadn't rebelled and taught the ancient Nords the Thu'um.  So, although yes he did commit "crimes" against men when he served under Alduin, Paarthunax also saved tons of lives by rebelling.  (That has to at least mitigate things).  Paarthunax then continued to wait at the throat of the world for years and years to face down Alduin upon his return, continually sharing the secrets of the Thu'um with the Greybeards.  Clearly, Paarthunax's reversal was complete - he was thoroughly anti-Alduin when our Dovahkiin hero arrives on the scene.

    Yet the Blades want him killed out of some rigid and ridiculous sense of "justice".  They even hold his turning on Alduin against Paarthunax!!  I mean, holy crap what a joke.  Most tellingly, is that the Blades admit that Paarthunax was long protected during the centuries by the emperors themselves!!!  I.e, they very people the Blades were sworn to protect!!  The raison d'etre of the Blades is not the eradication of all dragons, or even as the enforcers of some kind of cosmic justice, but it is to protect and serve the Emperors of the Septim bloodline.  These very Septims want Paarthunax protected, yet the last two remaining of an order sworn to serve the Septims want to contravene these wishes, and have Paarthunax killed.

    Well, excuuuuuuse me, Pamela Landy.  Who the hell made you head F.B.I agent of ancient justice?  The fuck?

    In terms of gameplay: What do you get from killing Paarthunax?  A hearty handshake and the ability to make other blockheads like Mjoll a blade.  You also get the enmity of the Greybeards and the refusal of Arngeir to tell you where any other word walls are.

    What do you get for sparing Paarthunax?  The continued friendship of the Greybears and Arngeir's drip-dropping of more word-wall locations.  To me, that's significant.  Finding word walls can be a haphazard enterprise.  I know the courier-delivered Letters from a Friend helps, but you can't control when you receive them.  However, you can control stopping by High Hrothgar to chat with Argeir about the "whisper of a word" and "where it's echo can be found".

    And what does the enmity of the Blades amount to?  A whole pile of nothing.  Once Alduin is defeated, the Blades just chill at Skyhaven.  So to me, it was obvious that Paarthunax should be spared.

     

    PS - I settled the civil war before trying to trap Odahviing at Dragonsreach, so I didn't have to enforce a ceasefire or anything.  Once I learned of the existence of the Dragonrend shout, I didn't need the Blades for anything, and didn't speak to them again until after Alduin was defeated in Sovngarde.

    • 5 posts
    December 19, 2011 11:11 AM EST

    You my friend are damn straight about this. Heck no was I going to kill Parthunax. He is one of the most awesome characters in any Elder Scrolls game. He sacrificed so much in his life to help humans that the fact that the Blades still want him dead is pathetic. Forgiveness people. Esbern wanting Nax dead made me change my entire perception of the blades around. Esbern, Mr. Martin Septim would be disappointed with you. 

    • 6 posts
    December 19, 2011 6:35 PM EST
    I killed him and thoroughly enjoyed it. I guess I'm just an evil person at heart. :)
    • 6 posts
    December 19, 2011 6:35 PM EST
    • 4 posts
    December 19, 2011 7:12 PM EST

    After getting the distinct impression that the Blades and the Greybeards didn't see eye-to-eye, I guessed that I would end up having to pick a side.  The moment when that occured, was the moment when Esbern told me that in order for him to help me, I would have to kill Paarthurnax.  It was a simple choice to make, for me.  I had no desire to kill a wise, intelligent and insightful creature like Paarthurnax.  Besides, I preferred the philosophy of the Greybeards over that of the Blades.

    Although working with the Blades was something I had enjoyed in previous Elder Scrolls titles, I really wasn't keen on their latest incarnation.  I didn't like their attitude of extermination without exception, and tarring all dragons with the same brush.  Plus Paarthurnax had been really helpful,and I couldn't betray his trust.

    So I agree completely.  Greybeards for me. 

    • 708 posts
    December 19, 2011 7:50 PM EST

    I kept Paarthurnax alive on my first playthrough, the second time I did the main quest he wasn't so lucky. I sort of wanted to see what the Blades gave you, fighting a dragon 5v1 is pretty cool and you get the locations of dragons (word walls more useful, I agree) as well as a permanent effect that reduces dragon damage by 25%.

    • 3 posts
    December 19, 2011 9:52 PM EST

    I didn't really want to kill him, but i just couldnt give up the epic experience of teaming up with jenassa,marcurio and lydia to take down dragons.Still feel a bit bad though.

    • 132 posts
    December 19, 2011 10:08 PM EST

    Indeed, Paarthurnax is extremely badass and I would prefer not to kill him, the blades are just too epic to lose. Just a personal preference, since I don't use any shouts except for the story ones (call dragon, FUS RO DAH etc.) and thus I don't care about word walls.

    • 577 posts
    December 20, 2011 12:18 AM EST

    Yeah I felt bad and went the Blades side. I really did like P-Drag (don't feel like spelling his name). To be honest, I was thinking that there would be alot more detailed quests with the Blades. Kinda like the companions or something. Well it turns out it's just slaying dragons:( That's cool and all, but....

    I do like the idea of build an army. That's cool. And I also was tempted by the cool armor they wear. If anything, I was just being selfish in that respect. haha!! I remember coming to that bridge weatherr I had to kill P-Drag or side with the Blades. I was fully bummed. T'was a hard desicion. Next play though I'll go the other way.

    • 4 posts
    December 20, 2011 12:23 AM EST

    AGREE COMPLETELY. Blades can suck it. I hated their close-minded attitude. Paarthunax forever!

    • 24 posts
    December 20, 2011 2:07 AM EST

    Yes, totally agreed, same here about Paarthurnax. Loved him.

    • 952 posts
    December 20, 2011 4:49 AM EST

    I don't side with the Blades or the Graybeards. I won't kill Paarthunax however since I have no reason to, he helped me and I helped him. I really don't like how the greybeards think, the blades are right about that, little Tiber Septim wouldn't have become Emperor if he had listened to the greybeards. The greybeards are also right about the blades, they hate all the dragons no matter of what they've done, they think more of power than of the rest of the world.

    • 856 posts
    December 20, 2011 8:37 AM EST

    I haven' completed the MQ, but I read this article anyways - I'm far enough along to sense that there was going to be a divergence b/w the Greybeards and the Blades, and I had speculated it would involve P.  So this wasn't spoilerish for me.    My character doesn't like to be told what to do, so his reaction will be influenced (negatively) by whomever tries to give him orders - and based on what I know so far, it'll probably mean that Parthunax will live - hell, if the blades get too pushy, then they may die, but I'll have to wait to see.

    • 21 posts
    December 20, 2011 8:48 AM EST

    That's a good point about the Greybeards.  They are a bit fatalistic about things.  I think there was one point where they sort of just shrugged at the idea of Alduin eating the world, and weren't sure if it was even worth fighting him.

    When Pamela Landy (Delphine) told me at Skyhaven to not be afraid to use my power, I was like "hell yeah!" - thinking she was referring to going toe to toe with Alduin.  But then they strangely got all self-righteous and judgmental about Paarthunax, and my basic response was "who the hell are you?  You're just a damn soldier."  And the more I thought about it, the more I lost respect for the Esbern and the Blades.

    • 1 posts
    December 31, 2011 6:48 PM EST

    not gonna lie i had a dilemna on this cuz this i have this honor bound thing going on so before i realized the blades wanted me to kill him i had gone on a few dragon raids with them so i had fought with them.. on the other hand the greybeards and paarthunax have helped me immensely and im not one to just up andd ignore tht as im told to strike down a friend.. therefore i ignored the blades but im not going to kill them if i can help it i suppose im just done hunting dragons with them :(

    • 1 posts
    December 31, 2011 9:09 PM EST

    Worse, my friend. You're an evil Khajiit at heart!

    • 10 posts
    January 1, 2012 3:36 AM EST

    Throwing in the objective to kill Paarthurnax was a great way to make choosing between the Blades and the Greybeards heart-wrenching. Myself, I far prefer the Blades. They were the heroes of the Oblivion Crisis, and even though they've been pushed to the brink of destruction they're still trying to claw their way back into the world. One of the best twists in the game for me was discovering that the innkeeper at humble little Riverwood was one of the last suriving Blades (Sleeping Giant Inn, by the way. Interesting choice for a name).

    On the other hand, I have little interest in siding with the Greybeards. The pacifisim they hold dearly is destructive - they seem perfectly willing to allow Alduin to destroy the world and everyone on it, just so long as they can sit in their temple. Paarthurnax himself seems far more pragmatic than they are.I wouldn't  be at all distressed if the Greybeards shunned me.

    That said, I just can't bring myself to kill Paarthurnax. Not with my first two characters anyway. It goes against my instincts to forgive and show mercy. So as much as I may want to side with the Blades, it's just not worth killing Paarthurnax for it.

    • 2 posts
    August 24, 2012 7:59 PM EDT

    i killed him in the name of justice. the fact that he helped the nords and turned on Alduin is not worthy of praise. this is what he shouldve been doing the entire time. Its like two mass murderers have killed a bunch of people and one decides to stop and take action to stop the other. this is what shouldve been done from the start and does not in the slightest way make up for his past crimes. he may be good now but that is irrelevant as is whatever the Septims would have wanted. the fact remains that paarthunax has killed many innocent people. justice demands his death even if we dont want to kill a "good" guy.

  • August 24, 2012 8:17 PM EDT

    It certainly makes up for his crime, where would the( elder scrolls) world be if Paarthurnax didn't help the Nords fight Alduin, still enslaved by Dragons. Also the Blades try and kick me out of MY Sky Haven Temple( which is why I stole everything not nailed down and then promptly kicked their asses PS Delphine is weak :P)

    • 2 posts
    August 24, 2012 10:23 PM EDT

    you seem to think since the consequences of his good actions are so great, his crimes are forgiven. this is where we differ. i dont buy the idea of redemption. i dont care if a murderer goes on to save the world. his crimes are still there. you cannot erase evil deeds with good ones. would a convicted murderer be able to escape a death sentence if he donated billions to charity and saved lives (many more lives than he took) that way?