Skyrim Character Building » Discussions

The Ideal Build Requirements

• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  January 8, 2014

  

  The topic is self-explaining but I want to elaborate a little. Lately I decided to evaluate the criteria that I use when evaluating builds. They were pretty loose and got basically to "if a person had put work into the build, I'll like it". But then I started to think, what is my ideal build and got no answer. I was hoping your answers might help me with that question and I believe that this discussion should be helpful to the new and current build authors. Some pointers

  1) Long, short or non-existent backstory? If existing, should the backstory focus on the character itself and detail him/her extensively, or it should only give pointers about motives that drive the character?

  2) Screenshots or artwork?

  3) How much detail should be put in gameplay and roleplay sections ?

  4) What level should the character be?

  5) How easily-obtainable should the equipment be?

  6) On-site or off-site perk spread and if the first option - perks on an image or perks on a solid background with image on the side?

  7) What sections do you think must be in your ideal build?

  

  The topic is self-explaining but I want to elaborate a little. Lately I decided to evaluate the criteria that I use when evaluating builds. They were pretty loose and got basically to "if a person had put work into the build, I'll like it". But then I started to think, what is my ideal build and got no answer. I was hoping your answers might help me with that question and I believe that this discussion should be helpful to the new and current build authors. Some pointers

  1) Long, short or non-existent backstory? If existing, should the backstory focus on the character itself and detail him/her extensively, or it should only give pointers about motives that drive the character?

  2) Screenshots or artwork?

  3) How much detail should be put in gameplay and roleplay sections ?

  4) What level should the character be?

  5) How easily-obtainable should the equipment be?

  6) On-site or off-site perk spread and if the first option - perks on an image or perks on a solid background with image on the side?

  7) What sections do you think must be in your ideal build?

• Tae-Rai

  

  Member
   

  January 8, 2014

  1) I think many people who RP will use their own character's backstory but an small snippet on whom this character is going to be is always needed, usually no longer then two paragraphs. It shouldn't be personal, but explain why the character is in Skyrim and wha his motives are.
  
  2) Both. Mainly because PC players are the only ones who can get screenshots but I always like to see them because it shows the character has been played.
  
  3) I like long gameplay and tactics sections because I need to know how the person handles combat with their build. Too long, and it gets boring, but long enough that I know everything. Roleplay should be short pointers.
  
  4) Higher then 30, lower then 60.
  
  5) If the build calls for high-end equipment for a legitimate reason, I see nothing wrong with that but if it's just "USE DEADRIK ARMOR CUZ IT DA BEST HURR HURR" then it's a problem.
  
  6) Perks on image, all the way. Pretties up the build then a few links thrown in.
  
  7) Thaken from my own builds: Backstory, Stats, Perks, Gameplay, Special Moves, Roleplay and Recommended Quests. That's all that's really needed

  1) I think many people who RP will use their own character's backstory but an small snippet on whom this character is going to be is always needed, usually no longer then two paragraphs. It shouldn't be personal, but explain why the character is in Skyrim and wha his motives are.
  
  2) Both. Mainly because PC players are the only ones who can get screenshots but I always like to see them because it shows the character has been played.
  
  3) I like long gameplay and tactics sections because I need to know how the person handles combat with their build. Too long, and it gets boring, but long enough that I know everything. Roleplay should be short pointers.
  
  4) Higher then 30, lower then 60.
  
  5) If the build calls for high-end equipment for a legitimate reason, I see nothing wrong with that but if it's just "USE DEADRIK ARMOR CUZ IT DA BEST HURR HURR" then it's a problem.
  
  6) Perks on image, all the way. Pretties up the build then a few links thrown in.
  
  7) Thaken from my own builds: Backstory, Stats, Perks, Gameplay, Special Moves, Roleplay and Recommended Quests. That's all that's really needed

• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  January 8, 2014

  Thanks Tae, I can see where you're coming from. For backstories and roleplay - what roleplay pointers do you think are best and how do you see backstory giving character motives without being personal? Also, why do you think that Recommended Quests is a necessary section?

  Thanks Tae, I can see where you're coming from. For backstories and roleplay - what roleplay pointers do you think are best and how do you see backstory giving character motives without being personal? Also, why do you think that Recommended Quests is a necessary section?

• Ponty

  

  Member
   

  January 8, 2014

  1. If you're containing it inside your build post, short. What is included is up to the author, though it's worth considering writing a blog post for your character if it's going to be long.
  2. Either or, as long as the artwork/screenshots are relevant and not horribly overused.
  3. Depends on the character. Some characters have complex gameplay styles that really need to be well explained, and some have an in-depth roleplay. Consider posting your character's roleplay as an RP Profile.
  4. Doesn't really matter, but you shouldn't really be making significant progression after level 50. Lower level perk guides are nice as well for people that like to follow the build exactly.
  5. Doesn't really matter, as long as there's other similar stuff I can wear until I get that. Making a build revolving around high-level artifacts without low level alternatives is a bit off-putting in my opinion.
  6. Doesn't matter, I don't read perk spreads anyway.
  7. Structure is up to the author. As long as I know who the character is, what they can do, and how I can do it it's cool.

  1. If you're containing it inside your build post, short. What is included is up to the author, though it's worth considering writing a blog post for your character if it's going to be long.
  2. Either or, as long as the artwork/screenshots are relevant and not horribly overused.
  3. Depends on the character. Some characters have complex gameplay styles that really need to be well explained, and some have an in-depth roleplay. Consider posting your character's roleplay as an RP Profile.
  4. Doesn't really matter, but you shouldn't really be making significant progression after level 50. Lower level perk guides are nice as well for people that like to follow the build exactly.
  5. Doesn't really matter, as long as there's other similar stuff I can wear until I get that. Making a build revolving around high-level artifacts without low level alternatives is a bit off-putting in my opinion.
  6. Doesn't matter, I don't read perk spreads anyway.
  7. Structure is up to the author. As long as I know who the character is, what they can do, and how I can do it it's cool.
• Tae-Rai

  

  Member
   

  January 8, 2014

  I think the best ones are where they are just seen as tips, not orders, and are things people might miss from the build.

  For example, if I went to my Hist Wraith and went with the first RP pointer: "The Hist Wraith does not love nor care about anyone but himself. Even the feared assassins of the Dark Brotherhood worry that he could turn on them. And don’t worry about completing their questline first – The Hist Wraith only obeys orders from himself. He will also create his own ‘targets’ as unofficial contracts." Even if it wasn't my build, I would know immediately that the Hist Wraith is meant to be played by a Chaotic Evil characater BUT it doesn't tell me to go out and kill everything... Am I making sense? XD
  
  As for the backstory, well, personally just try and make the backstory focus more on the build and not the character. Again, pulled from mmy Hist Wrath (which is my best build, IMO) and here's his backstory:
  
  "From the heart of the Black Marsh, legends from a local village tell of an undead creature, who hunts those who choose to invade an area that is sacred to a family whose ancestors date back to the first Argonians to settle on Tamriel. Little do they know though, the Hist Wraith is just a simple Argonian, one who is chosen by his tribe to protect their land and is sworn to their service until his death. He is also used as an assassin when enemies invade.

  The latest Hist Wraith fled from his homeland after he failed to assassinate the leader of a group of human explorers break into their inner circle of their home and burned it to the ground, killing all but the Hist Wraith and two older brothers, who were not only jealous of the youngest of them being chosen to protect the tribe, but angry that he had failed. The Hist Wraith was angry too and slaughtered them out of pure rage, fuming that at the thought that he, the Hist Wraith, had failed! He left the area and journeyed, before he eventually came to Skyrim…"

  It doesn't give personal details but it opens up the build and (hopefully) interests people enough to read it.
  
  I like a Recommended Quests section because I feel some quests may need to be explained. Personally, I use that section to explain their alignment.
  
  Any more questions?  

  I think the best ones are where they are just seen as tips, not orders, and are things people might miss from the build.

  For example, if I went to my Hist Wraith and went with the first RP pointer: "The Hist Wraith does not love nor care about anyone but himself. Even the feared assassins of the Dark Brotherhood worry that he could turn on them. And don’t worry about completing their questline first – The Hist Wraith only obeys orders from himself. He will also create his own ‘targets’ as unofficial contracts." Even if it wasn't my build, I would know immediately that the Hist Wraith is meant to be played by a Chaotic Evil characater BUT it doesn't tell me to go out and kill everything... Am I making sense? XD
  
  As for the backstory, well, personally just try and make the backstory focus more on the build and not the character. Again, pulled from mmy Hist Wrath (which is my best build, IMO) and here's his backstory:
  
  "From the heart of the Black Marsh, legends from a local village tell of an undead creature, who hunts those who choose to invade an area that is sacred to a family whose ancestors date back to the first Argonians to settle on Tamriel. Little do they know though, the Hist Wraith is just a simple Argonian, one who is chosen by his tribe to protect their land and is sworn to their service until his death. He is also used as an assassin when enemies invade.

  The latest Hist Wraith fled from his homeland after he failed to assassinate the leader of a group of human explorers break into their inner circle of their home and burned it to the ground, killing all but the Hist Wraith and two older brothers, who were not only jealous of the youngest of them being chosen to protect the tribe, but angry that he had failed. The Hist Wraith was angry too and slaughtered them out of pure rage, fuming that at the thought that he, the Hist Wraith, had failed! He left the area and journeyed, before he eventually came to Skyrim…"

  It doesn't give personal details but it opens up the build and (hopefully) interests people enough to read it.
  
  I like a Recommended Quests section because I feel some quests may need to be explained. Personally, I use that section to explain their alignment.
  
  Any more questions?  

• Zach

  

  Member
   

  January 8, 2014

  I used to like builds if they showed effort as, well. Nowadays I only like a build if, ya know, I actually like the build a lot. 

  1) Whatever fits. I love roleplay builds, where there is a ton of lore and roleplay aspects, but I hate long back stories. If it is short and directly relates to the pretense of the build, OK, but anything more than two-ish paragraphs I will not read.

  2) Screenshots and/or artwork all are fine with me, as long as they fit the build and look good.

  3) It depends. A build should always be detailed in gameplay terms in my eyes, but it does not have to compressed into one section. I am fine with any, or lack of, roleplay, it all depends on the focus of the build

  4) Not important as long as it is over, like, level 25. 

  5) I do not care about attainability. 

  6) I prefer perk images. I used to be fine with text over pictures, but now I really like a picture with solid sections for the words.

  7) It is hard, to say this, because it all depends on how they lay the build out. Basic elements though: "the build" section, perks, equipment, gameplay, reccomended quests.

  I used to like builds if they showed effort as, well. Nowadays I only like a build if, ya know, I actually like the build a lot. 

  1) Whatever fits. I love roleplay builds, where there is a ton of lore and roleplay aspects, but I hate long back stories. If it is short and directly relates to the pretense of the build, OK, but anything more than two-ish paragraphs I will not read.

  2) Screenshots and/or artwork all are fine with me, as long as they fit the build and look good.

  3) It depends. A build should always be detailed in gameplay terms in my eyes, but it does not have to compressed into one section. I am fine with any, or lack of, roleplay, it all depends on the focus of the build

  4) Not important as long as it is over, like, level 25. 

  5) I do not care about attainability. 

  6) I prefer perk images. I used to be fine with text over pictures, but now I really like a picture with solid sections for the words.

  7) It is hard, to say this, because it all depends on how they lay the build out. Basic elements though: "the build" section, perks, equipment, gameplay, reccomended quests.

• jakeG

  

  Member
   

  January 8, 2014

  This is an excellent discussion Vaz. and it's also something I was comprehending on and off from ever since I joined this community.

  1. People tend to prefer to mix roleplay with their character build. Then there are others like myself who generally abhors including roleplay into their builds. The problem I have with roleplay in general is the game developers of ES has already predetermined what and who you are and it's literally hardcoded into the game. Now if it was a sandbox game like an MMO where you aren't the chosen one (dragonborn or something similar in nature) then I can respect the inclusion of roleplay elements. Imagination can work just so far, then reality jump out and kick you in the face by constantly reminding you that you are dragonborn and must do your main quest. It's kind of hard ignoring the fact that you and only you have the ability to steal dragons souls even when you did nothing to bring it down. But I digress, in my most humblest of opinions, I believe the roleplay aspect of the build should be left strictly up to the player and treat character builds as character jobs or classes instead.

  2. Screenshots should be preferred. Since we are an ES community, gameplay should be featured through screenshots, by including artworks or god forbid screenshots/artwork from other game to explain your gameplay you are misleading your readers, it's Elderscrolls it's not ... "put your game here". In general, anything within the realms of Elderscrolls should be used, however things directly pulled from other games will just mislead.

  3. See #1. If I had it my way, I'd only focus on the gameplay, restrictions, and mechanical aspects of a build.

  4. Generally max level should be 50, leveling beyond 50 seems to be quite a chore.

  5. Equipment shouldn't be seen as an endpoint to the build, it should just enhance the build. Meaning it should be replaceable by other lesser equipments. Seen from that point of view, equipment can be easily obtainable because it isn't required to make the build functioning.

  6. If you have the know how, why not both? You can see it demonstrated in my squire class.

  Squire Class
  Breaker	Grenadier	Radiant	Shieldknight	Warden

  7. General Summary of the build is a must! -- I want to read a short and concise summary of what the build is. As far as background information/roleplay elements the general summary should be the only place to contain it. Character requirements (the usual standing stone, blessing, items, perks, and all that jazz), and most importantly the gameplay, tell me what it can do and how well it will do it. Be short and concise. Optional sections would be: Tips place for general advise to improve gameplay that some may or may not use, Media section for videos and pictures.

  This is an excellent discussion Vaz. and it's also something I was comprehending on and off from ever since I joined this community.

  1. People tend to prefer to mix roleplay with their character build. Then there are others like myself who generally abhors including roleplay into their builds. The problem I have with roleplay in general is the game developers of ES has already predetermined what and who you are and it's literally hardcoded into the game. Now if it was a sandbox game like an MMO where you aren't the chosen one (dragonborn or something similar in nature) then I can respect the inclusion of roleplay elements. Imagination can work just so far, then reality jump out and kick you in the face by constantly reminding you that you are dragonborn and must do your main quest. It's kind of hard ignoring the fact that you and only you have the ability to steal dragons souls even when you did nothing to bring it down. But I digress, in my most humblest of opinions, I believe the roleplay aspect of the build should be left strictly up to the player and treat character builds as character jobs or classes instead.

  2. Screenshots should be preferred. Since we are an ES community, gameplay should be featured through screenshots, by including artworks or god forbid screenshots/artwork from other game to explain your gameplay you are misleading your readers, it's Elderscrolls it's not ... "put your game here". In general, anything within the realms of Elderscrolls should be used, however things directly pulled from other games will just mislead.

  3. See #1. If I had it my way, I'd only focus on the gameplay, restrictions, and mechanical aspects of a build.

  4. Generally max level should be 50, leveling beyond 50 seems to be quite a chore.

  5. Equipment shouldn't be seen as an endpoint to the build, it should just enhance the build. Meaning it should be replaceable by other lesser equipments. Seen from that point of view, equipment can be easily obtainable because it isn't required to make the build functioning.

  6. If you have the know how, why not both? You can see it demonstrated in my squire class.

  Squire Class
  Breaker	Grenadier	Radiant	Shieldknight	Warden

  7. General Summary of the build is a must! -- I want to read a short and concise summary of what the build is. As far as background information/roleplay elements the general summary should be the only place to contain it. Character requirements (the usual standing stone, blessing, items, perks, and all that jazz), and most importantly the gameplay, tell me what it can do and how well it will do it. Be short and concise. Optional sections would be: Tips place for general advise to improve gameplay that some may or may not use, Media section for videos and pictures.

• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  January 8, 2014

  Hmm, I see now what you meant with RP pointers. Keeping backstory focus on the class name rather than the character makes sense, though it's quite hard to pull out. In the backstory you brought here you mention Hist Wraith slaughtering his brothers. That's already personal 

  Hmm, I see now what you meant with RP pointers. Keeping backstory focus on the class name rather than the character makes sense, though it's quite hard to pull out. In the backstory you brought here you mention Hist Wraith slaughtering his brothers. That's already personal 

• Drifa Skir

  

  Member
   

  January 8, 2014

  Great topic, Vaz!   I'm in agreement with most of what other folks have said here.

  1. Long backstory should definitely be a blog post or an RP profile.  Keep it brief, tied to the skills and alignment, and open and flexible enough that anyone can create their own unique character from it.

  2. Some artwork or screenshots are definitely required, IMO.  I prefer screenshots personally, but I recognize that that's not doable for most people.
  
  3. Gameplay: If attaining certain items requires certain levels or is best done in a certain order, that's useful info.  Tactics or special moves are definitely necessary - these are an integral part of what makes a build original, even a role-play build.  Roleplay: As mentioned with backstory, I think this is best served by being posted elsewhere, or integrated into the skills sections of the build in *short* bursts, not long enough to overwhelm the main informational bits.
  
  4. I think level 30 - level 60 is a good range.  I do like early perk spreads at level 10 or 15 as well.
  
  5. If the end-game equipment is difficult to get, then there need to be recommendations on early and/or mid-game equipment that's attainable.  I have a strong preference for characters that can be mostly kitted out before level 25-30.
  
  6. On-site perk spread image, definitely.  Solid background with an image on the side is absolutely acceptable, but I don't click on off-site perk spreads unless something else about the build has really grabbed me and I'm thinking about playing it.
  
  7. As others have mentioned, stats, perks, equipment, gameplay/tactics, and recommended quests.  

  Great topic, Vaz!   I'm in agreement with most of what other folks have said here.

  1. Long backstory should definitely be a blog post or an RP profile.  Keep it brief, tied to the skills and alignment, and open and flexible enough that anyone can create their own unique character from it.

  2. Some artwork or screenshots are definitely required, IMO.  I prefer screenshots personally, but I recognize that that's not doable for most people.
  
  3. Gameplay: If attaining certain items requires certain levels or is best done in a certain order, that's useful info.  Tactics or special moves are definitely necessary - these are an integral part of what makes a build original, even a role-play build.  Roleplay: As mentioned with backstory, I think this is best served by being posted elsewhere, or integrated into the skills sections of the build in *short* bursts, not long enough to overwhelm the main informational bits.
  
  4. I think level 30 - level 60 is a good range.  I do like early perk spreads at level 10 or 15 as well.
  
  5. If the end-game equipment is difficult to get, then there need to be recommendations on early and/or mid-game equipment that's attainable.  I have a strong preference for characters that can be mostly kitted out before level 25-30.
  
  6. On-site perk spread image, definitely.  Solid background with an image on the side is absolutely acceptable, but I don't click on off-site perk spreads unless something else about the build has really grabbed me and I'm thinking about playing it.
  
  7. As others have mentioned, stats, perks, equipment, gameplay/tactics, and recommended quests.  

• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  January 8, 2014

  You brought a good point Ponty, I believe RP Profiles were created partially to address those aspects of the builds. Generally you show the backbone of any build - who is the character, what he can and can't do and how what he does is cool. I think that any build without those points is not a good one 

  You brought a good point Ponty, I believe RP Profiles were created partially to address those aspects of the builds. Generally you show the backbone of any build - who is the character, what he can and can't do and how what he does is cool. I think that any build without those points is not a good one